Transcript
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Announcer:
Welcome to The Podcast to be Named Later, where we explore the world a conversation at a time.  Sit back and enjoy.  Here are your hosts, Chris and Kelly.
Kelly:
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the podcast to be named later. Kind of in the sports of all football is on hold till the next season. Baseball hasn't started, but Chris and I are still here. Chris, how you doing?
Chris:
I'm doing really good, Sir. Good to be talking with you, buddy.
Kelly:
Yeah. All right. Really good to be talking with you too. You know, like, I was just saying it's a little bit of a lull and sports NBA honestly doesn't really get going to the playoffs for the most part, NFL, we'll have a draft in like, I don't know, month and 1/2. They've upped the salary cap a little bit. It's gotten a lot higher. Thirty $30 million more.
Chris:
More money, more problems. Yeah, which I was an NFL player.
Kelly:
Speaking of getting higher, Chris, I thought we'd take a little bit of a change of pace and you spend a lot of your life kind of. Getting high up in the air a little bit. Yeah, no fun.
Chris:
You're not testing me, are you, buddy? I was told there'd be no drug tests with this job.
Kelly:
Yeah. No, no, no, just, you know, but you work out on the roof, so you do go get up there a little bit though we. Just. Chat a little bit about that. It's probably the perspective of the world that a lot of us don't have. Yeah. Give us the lowdown, man. What are you doing up there?
Chris:
I know a little bit about it. I mean, all kinds of things, actually, man, it depends. There's all kinds of different roofs, there's, you know, residential roofs, commercial roofs, pitch roofs, flat roofs. I mean, there's, you know, just about every building has some form of roof on it. I don't care if it's a Hut. You generally put a roof on it, right? So, you know, I think it's definitely one of the overlooked. Areas in the world of like building construction and stuff. I think most people just kind of take their roof for granted, you know, like, I don't know. I mean, you know, you know it when you have a problem, like many other things, like your plumbing, right. So you don't really think about it until, like, there's an issue. And then all of a sudden it's like real high on your mind. So, yeah. You know, yeah, we get up in the air sometimes, though, man. Definitely. I've been on various heights of roofs, you know, up, you know, well up over 200 feet. And and most most commercial buildings that we work on are somewhere in the, I'd say 20 to like 40 foot range. That's like pretty standard size. We work in a lot of warehouses, shopping centers. You know, I get on all sorts of roofs, even residences from time to time, but. You know most most of what I do is somewhere in that like 303035 foot range up in there.
Kelly:
So when you're, you said you've been up on a 200 foot roof, how do you get up there? Helicopter dropped you down or what?
Chris:
Well, luckily the the the most recent one, almost every roof is gonna have a freight elevator, right? You know, I'm gonna catch a ride to the top of one of those in most cases I've never had to walk a flight of stairs. That was over 200 feet before. I've always been able to catch a ride. But, yeah, generally they got a. Elevator that you could use, you know, to get up and down and you know that's that's the most common. We ain't sitting the ladder up, I'll tell you that, buddy. So 45 feet is about my limit on climbing an external ladder. Now, if it's a fixed ladder, meaning like it's attached to the building. So some places will have and some places will even have scaffolding built depending on the facilities. Like how often they have to access it. You know how important safety is to them. So some buildings will build like a stairway to. The roof and hotels will be like that a lot of times. Like you'll you'll climb up stairs and then you actually, you know, walk out onto the roof from the stairway. Usually you'll need like a key to get out there, you know, someone from from the facilities will have to let you out. But hotels are pretty standard for having stairs that go to the roof. But more common is a ladder. And most common for us is that that work in the roofing industry is is what's called an external ladder. So we take a ladder and lean it up against the side of the. And we choose that route because it's cleaner. We don't have to walk through their building. We have to take our dirty shoes across their floor, right. So we just try to keep to ourselves. We try to pick a spot in the back where we're not, you know, right by the front door, you know, try to stay out of their way while we're working. And so we'll set a a ladder up outside the building and then that'll be our access. And from the.
Kelly:
Roof. No, I mean you work in a commercial roofing, I guess. And remind me, you kind of roll the Groupon or? How? Remind me.
Chris:
Yeah. And there's all kinds, man. So I mean, there's fluid applied roofs, which is what we do. And there's built up.
Kelly:
So what you. A big barrel and dump it over or what?
Chris:
Yeah, we we're a little more sophisticated than that. But I mean, you know, in all honesty, you're not that far away. So we generally we'll send the products in container of some sort of. Barrel, which is 55 gallons a tote which is 275 gallons or our company will send our materials in a tank like a A tanker and we'll drive it there with the semi truck and and park it in the parking lot. You know obviously you need a bigger roof to to justify that that much quantities. But many of the projects that we. Do. Are of that size, so we just, you know, we fill up a 5000 gallon tank or 3000 gallon tank. We have various sizes and and depending on how much how much you need. We fill it up and then we drive it to your job site and then you would hook a pump up to it at that point. So yeah, then we pump from the ground. There's a pump that will suck out of the tanker or the toad or whatever your product came in, and then it gets sucked up into the pump and then pushed out a smaller hose. And that smaller hose will go up onto the roof, and that's what we work out of. You know, we have a a spray gun on the end and, you know, various wands. We call them, you know, so, you know, sometimes they're ball valves, sometimes they're trigger valves. You know, there's. It depends what you're doing, man. What product you're working with, but generally that's the most efficient way to do large scale commercial roofing. If you have a fluid applied system like we do, the company I work for, we. Do fluid applied roofs so essentially we're building the membrane on location as opposed to most other historically conventional roof systems, are pre manufactured somewhere and then you know they have a set like usually it'll be like 100 feet long or 33. 8 long depends. I'll stick the membrane is. And then they roll it up, you know, cure it out in their factory, you know, build it the way they want to their specifications. And then they roll it up. And then we take it on a truck to the job site. And then we use a crane to drop it on. You know, we'll set it gently, not drop it, but set it up on the roof. And then the crew will unroll it and then do the screwing and gluing. And and you know, whatever is necessary welding to to make it permanent.
Kelly:
So I've always heard like for fire people that work as fire people, fire men, fire women. A fire hose is actually really tough to handle because of the water pumping through it, and they're really heavy. These hoses that you're, you know, running around the roof with and spraying. However it comes out, are they heavy and is it? Is it hard to direct it and all that or how's?
Chris:
Right. That work? Yeah. It's well, so first of all. I don't know exactly what the dimensions of a fire hose are, but I'm guessing they're about an inch and a quarter, maybe inch and 1/2.
Kelly:
I think they actually have different ones because if you ever hear it, they'll say, yeah, we need a 2 inch or a one inch and then it really depends on the volume of water.
Chris:
They want, right? So you know water's heavy, man. I mean, you know, a gallon of water is like 8 lbs, right? So, you know, obviously, if I have a bigger hose, then there's more gallons of water in it. And so if I'm going to carry 10 feet, that's two inches in diameter. That's, you know, that's a lot more water than if it was 1 inch in diameter and arrows. Is that we work out of. Primarily coming off of the pump will be like a three quarter inch hose. And then when we get to the end of that line, so a typical might be, say 400 feet of line of hose, OK. So when we get to the end of that line, so I might put 300 feet of three quarter inch hose coming off the pump and that gets me a lot of products you know to to the to close to the end. And when I get at the end. Help all reduce the hose down to like half an inch for the last 50 or 100 feet. They usually come in like 50 foot sections, so the last section or two will be reduced down to half of half an inch. And then that's really manageable, dude. Like, one guy can can maneuver, you know, 2030 feet of hose, you know, by himself. He gets a little tiring over the day. Usually, you know, everyone tries to help out like with the hose and moving it, especially as you're as you're moving eventually. So I have 400 feet of hose. You know, the the working distance at the end. Is only you know about 30-40, fifty feet or so, but as we move and the hose starts to get bunched up as we start working back towards the pump, eventually at the end of the day or the end of the week or whatever that hoses in the way and then that's a multi man job to. To move 400 feet of hose like, you need multiple bodies to to carry that much.
Kelly:
So I'm just curious. Presumably let's just say I got a obviously would be a lot bigger than this, but let's just say I have a roof that's. You know, 20 by 1020 feet by 10 feet just to keep it simple.
Speaker
MHM.
Kelly:
And let's say that. I'm assuming you go to the far end of that roof and do you walk backwards so that you're not dragging the hose through the stuff you put down?
Chris:
Correct, that's exactly. That's exactly it. So with ours, again, there's different roofing systems. So a lot of roof systems, when you lay them out, they're unfinished membrane like right as you go. So there's a a rolled roofing system that uses modified bitumen. You know, it's asphalt, it's modified asphalt, it's got, you know, various other components. It's got a scrim in there, a lot of times it's we've got granules to protect from UV and to make it more durable and and it's all pre manufactured, right? So it shows up to the roof as a roll and then what you do that roof is generally either put down with asphalt. Or it's torched on onto the roof. And yes, it really you're like melting the plastic on the bottom. So there's like a little plastic film that's on the bottom. And you take like, a propane tank and a. Blowtorch and you hook them up to each other and you just. I've done this before. When I ripped up to Washington, we did a lot of torch torch roofs. And generally, you're wearing steel toed boots and all. Let me tell you from experience, man, you don't know until it's too late that that flame has been hitting your steel book too much. And then all of a sudden, you realize, holy cow. And you can't get your boot off fast enough, but. You've definitely seen guys hopping around the roof before on one foot trying to get a shoe off because they're there, their toes are on fire and but that roof, really high quality roof system, you know you touched on, it's fully adhered right. It's not gonna blow off in the wind because it's it's melted onto. Usually there's a base sheet that's put down, you know, and it's melted. On there, so it can't go anywhere and it's really it's a really good rough system for sure. And you know those types of systems. Once I've torched that into place, it's it's a finished. I can walk on it right away. I'm done so. The the worst case scenario is you might have to like seal your edges at the end of the day. You know if you're not gonna finish the whole roof in a day at the end of the day you if it's gonna rain later or something or tomorrow you you may put a little mastic just to make sure water doesn't get underneath what you the work you just did. But essentially the roof is complete and you can walk on it instantly as soon as as soon as it's done. Single ply roofs on there's PVC, EPDM, TPO they're they're various. Go ahead.
Kelly:
Hey, bud, if you're going to give me an alphabet soup, you're going to define it.
Chris:
Well, they're just various chemical compositions and and they're they're just there's different manufacturers that use different things. Some people, you know, use these resins or these polymers and you know, if, dude, if you're going to get me into a chemistry exam, I'm going to need time to prepare because I'll be honest with you, man. That is not my area of expertise on the roof. I'm I'm on the application side of things.
Kelly:
We already know you're not good at homework for this podcast, so we.
Chris:
Yes, let's just, let's just pass over it and. But those are also once you roll them out, it's an already finished membrane. It's already dry. Well with what I do, what you described is exactly what you have to do. You have to go to the far end of the roof and work backwards because everything's wet and it's going to take a day or two before it's dry. So you you can't walk on it like you could a a different like roof system. So yeah, so we start at one end, we work backwards until like there's no more room to work or we run out of hours in the day or whatever the case may be. And then the next day we come and pick up where we left off.
Kelly:
So you're walking backwards. What do you do when you get to that back edge? I mean, how do you get that last foot or whatever?
Chris:
Usually we'll come in from the other way, so we'll let it dry. So now we can walk on it and we'll attack that last edge from the opposite side. So imagine there. There's 4040 inch rolls. There, there's a three inch lap on there, actually the 3039 inches. But there's a three inch lap on every roll, so each run is like 3 feet, so there's it's doubled up for three of the inches. So. So there's some redundancy on the laps and then, yeah, so once it's dry, you can walk on it and, you know, we try not to drag the hose around on the finish roof too much, but it's not that bad. Right. So then we'll just walk on the finished roof and finish up the last little like run or two that we couldn't get to.
Kelly:
So the chemicals or the compound that you're springing on the roof. It's got to have. It can't be as runny as water. I would assume it must have some degree of thickness to it.
Chris:
Yeah, the and the different products have different viscosities and it depends what you're using. But our primary for what we do, we do asphalt, emulsion and acrylic, so our. Generally, like our base layer in most of our systems are the asphalt emulsion. So it's basically asphalt, bentonite clay and water and it runs somewhere in the 48% solids range. So it's it's thick, so you know. It's twice as thick as water, so half of it is solids and half of it is water roughly right? So it's twice as thick as water would be, right? It's. Like a it's like. A A thin milk milkshake. I think it's a fair way to describe it. Kind of a watery milkshake.
Kelly:
What? What color does the roof end up being? Or can people get their roofs in different colors?
Chris:
Yeah, you can. I mean, for us we, I mean you know we're a manufacturer, we can make almost whatever color you want. So some are more challenging than others. So the part of the reason why is you got to think where these things are going. So you could put whatever color you want on your living room wall and over time over 10/15/20 years, yeah, absolutely. It'll fade in time. Like if you paint your all wall red for instance, Reds are are really challenging color in in the paint. World and they're tough to cover over. They're tough to make, stick to get a real true red is is a challenge. Usually it takes multiple coats and if you're trying, if you've ever like repainted a house and you got a red wall like you, probably you didn't cover that thing in one coat like it, you know, it's just a really powerful color and so. But now you got to think on the rough end of things. These things are subjected to constant UV abuse, which you? Know. Just sucks the the color out of out of a a A a paint right or a coating so. So you know the the stuff we do is it's not like your Home Depot paint your living room wall, paint it. It's something closer to like, you know what they would stripe the robes with. You know what I mean? Like it's it's a much burlier. We use different resins and it's constructed to to withstand formulated to withstand, you know much more abuse than like your standard. Like paint your bathroom paint.
Kelly:
So after you put this roof on, I mean, you know, obviously I've never been on one of your roofs, but I just cute little curious like, you know, I know how thick a shingle is. A typical house shingle. If you were to say go from like. From how thick is this stuff that you put on? If you were to like, stick a ruler through it, is it like quarter inch, eighth inch?
Chris:
Yeah, honestly, man, I wish I could give you a straight answer on that, but we have multiple specifications. So what we do is we build the membrane on location, right. So our thinnest version would be. The thickness of a paper clip. So we we measure things in terms of mills and you know it'd be like 40-50 mils. You know, for one layer not counting the top coat. Right. So the the thickness is is determined by you know how long of a warranty. You are what region of the country are you in? You know a roof in Phoenix can be much thinner and lighter weight than a roof in Denver, Co or or Fond du Lac, WI. You know what I mean? The the What is this roof going to go through and what are? What? You know what is weather gonna throw at it over an extended period of time? How many freeze thaw cycles is it going to go through? Like, what's it on? So there's a lot of components that go in. You know, when we do like a gravel cover. So a lot of old roofs were done. It was a great roof system. You took basically asphalt and then you. You know, you might do layers of that, you know, might do a couple of passes of asphalt and then you would put down like hot asphalt and you would embed gravel into it and then, you know, after that dries, you'd actually go and throw a little bit more gravel on top. And that gravel would hold up to hail, and it would hold up. It would provide great UV protection. And so that gravel would protect the waterproof asphalt underneath it. Well, those have gotten pretty dated and and and that's not something people do as a new new roof anymore. You know those those roofs date back 100 years, but they. They've been phased out. You know people are looking for more energy efficiency and and sustainability. And those roofs are are hard to maintain, you know, because if you think about it, like, if you have a hole in your roof, right, you got a leak. OK, where's the leak coming from? On on a roof like that, it's really hard to find because you have piles of rock everywhere and so you gotta move all the rock just to try and find a crack somewhere, you know? So it's it's hard to maintain. It's hard to find out if you do have a problem. It's hard to see it. So you have to move. It's it's a lot of Labor just to even try and find where the. Problem is and then the repair of it is challenging too so. Anyway, those have mostly been phased out, but when we do, when we cover those, one of those roofs, we ended up putting, probably man that could. That can vary, but it it it, it could be over 1/2 of an inch thick. Those those rough membranes end up being really thick because we. Have we have to take off the all the loose gravel? We clean it, we get all the sediment out. You know, we get it really clean either by pressure washing or using like the they're called power brooms. Basically, you pull the trigger and a wheel spins with like, wire or nylon bristles. And that goes through and kind of chops the roof up. And it it digs up all the loose like. Packed in. Dirt. And then we vacuum it or sweep it or whatever, right? We got to get all that stuff out of there and then we flood all that. So we take our asphalt emulsion, mix our watery milkshake, and we pour that on there and then we let it dry and then it it makes it doesn't make them all disappear, but it makes most of the rocks. Disappear when we get the roof. Smooth and flat and then but at that point I mean that could be 1/2 inch all by itself and then we go put the roof system on top, which is another, you know eighth inch to quarter inch thick. And we and we keep the old roof in place too. So you know what I mean? That by the time it's all said and done, I mean that, that roof that ends up being pretty burly, pretty thick. But like I said, if we're putting just a a simple a simple overlay in like Phoenix, AZ, we don't need. You know, we don't need all that. If if you had like one of those granulated roofs I was talking about, like the rolled roofing a lot of times we would just put a single ply. Little lightweight system over top just to preserve the what? What's left of that old roof and what's still good? We we save it, we don't tear it off the roof. We don't send anything to. Until we just, you know, kind of put it to sleep, if you will, right. We we stop the aging process of that and then we put a nice lightweight system on top of it and then the real key is the coating the the acrylic top coat that we put on and then that protects everything. It's just it's like the paint on your car, it keeps it from rusting. Like the the paint we put on the roof keeps it from aging.
Kelly:
When you're putting this on, how do you control the thickness? Like is it you go over it multiple times or do you change the? Rate that stuff's coming out of the holes, or like, how do you make it a little thicker?
Chris:
There's ways to gauge it. I mean, honestly, the simple answer is we use professionals and they have a. It's it's a skill, you know, a bit of an art, to be honest with you. And so, I mean, there's ways to there are wet mill gauges like you can take a a little there's gauges that are available. You can buy them. I mean, I have some in my truck. I'm I've almost never break them out, but they they'll tell you how thick something is and you can do a couple of little spot spot places and see if like the right thickness. But the easiest way to do it is just kind of track your usage right? So if I had a 55 gallon drum, we put our stuff down generally at 6 gallons per square. So a roofing square is 10 feet by 10 feet. And that's called a square in in the roofing world, right. So, you know, I know I should have used if I'm supposed to put 6 gallons per square, and I used a barrel, then I should have done about like just under 10 squares. I should have done 5 1/2 squares. So if that's how much distance I've covered, then I'm on the right rate. If it's not, then I got to make an adjustment and go a little thicker or a little thinner or whatever, but there are means for for tracking. As you go. But really it in the real world like we just use professionals. Man, the foreman knows, you know, just by looking at it, how how if he's at the right rate or not.
Kelly:
So when you talk about this, I mean, this ultimately must be an awful lot of weight on top of these buildings.
Chris:
Not really, dude. I mean, you know, not really man. So give you an idea. I mean you.
Kelly:
Probably less than an asphalt roof or something, but.
Chris:
Know.
Kelly:
Still.
Chris:
It's really, yeah, we. Because you gotta think it goes down. But half half of the product like I said is water. That all evaporates, that all disappears. So.
Kelly:
Ohh yeah.
Chris:
You know that that water's heavy. And like I said, so you lose half the weight. Well, a little less than half the weight. So, like, give you an idea our aswell motion I think is 311.5 lbs per gallon. So a gallon of water is 8/8, right? So you know it's a little heavier but and then you know, half of it is. There's water that all evaporates, so I mean, like our normal systems are about £100 per square. So that's £1.00 per foot dude. So really they're not that heavy, they're pretty lightweight.
Kelly:
OK. So. Just you know, when you're a kid, maybe you played down or you climbed up to your your house's roof or once or, you know, at least I know I.
Chris:
Did. Yeah, I used to jump from my roof to the neighbors roof when we played tag.
Kelly:
So now you're up on these big buildings. Like, just give us an idea. Like, what's it like up on those roofs? What's all up there?
Chris:
Not much, dude. No shade. I'll tell you. That ain't no shade up. There. So there's no there's no trees that that are higher than the roof. And yeah, there's no, there's nothing. There's nothing but sunshine. But but in reality, especially commercial buildings, Kelly. So, you know, you got to get out of the mindset of, like, what, what a residential. Looks like you know, with the pitch. So the flat roofs are exactly like they sound. They're pretty flat, man and most of the time they come with walls around the perimeter of the building. They called parapet walls and and so you can't really fall off if there is a short wall like, you know. And. And OSHA has limitations and and you know, there's. You know codes and and and safety protocols in place and everything that you know there's delineators in in terms of what's safe and what's not safe. But for the most part, man, you're just up. You're just, like walking on the ground. It's flat, you know, your ankles aren't all twisted or anything. You're just like walking like you would on the ground. You just happen to be doing it 30 feet in the air. Now, believe me, when we get close to the edge. Kelly, you know when or if there is no wall, you know? I'm. I'm well aware of like, hey, there's a fall hazard here. So usually either we'll use safety lines or a monitor system. Sometimes if it depending on the roof, we may actually harness up. Right. So you'll be you'll you'll have a harness that you're strapped and then you're strapped to retractable line. So if you were to slip and fall like you're not going to fall all the way, you'll just you'll fall. You know, a few feet and and then, you know, get back up again. Right. So believe, believe me, those of us that work in their roofing industry, like nobody's more concerned about my safety than I am, so you know. We we work freely in the in the, in the middle of the roof and you got on you. These are big roofs, dude. Like a lot of times like 300 feet by 300 feet. So there's a lot of center where I'm not in any danger of falling off this roof. Right. So even if you took 10 feet all the way around the perimeter, I'm still at a 280 foot roof by a 280 foot. And you know that gives me 10 feet of safety around the perimeter of it. So now when I get around the edges and when I get by you. The edge of a roof, or especially if there's no wall or like the of a fall, is an actual possibility. Then we slow way down. We take different precautions. You know, it's we do that. We do that section entirely different. But once you're in the middle you just kind of, you know, just like walking on land, man, just like anywhere else. Like it's all flat. You just up there working.
Kelly:
So you know residential roof, most of them got a pretty good pitch. So when it rains, water runs down the roof into the gutter, down the downspout, and you know, out to the ground or wherever you're having your water go. How do they handle water up on these big commercial?
Chris:
Some are also that way, some some also have gutter systems. There's what's called scuppers or canalis. They call them depending on what part of the country you're in. And essentially that's just a hole cut in the wall. And like the external wall. And then a lot of times they have, like, a downspout set up to it, but they'll just be like a hole in the wall and the roof will be constructed in such a manner that it. It's ushering the water to that location, right. So they kind of put it when I they're not in, they're not in zero slope roofs. So they're they're they're only slight slope. They're not pitched, like as much as like your resident. Are they're they're still an objective to get water to either a drain or a scupper. So the scuppers will be like a hole in the wall and then sometimes it just shoots out and runs down the walls. But most times they'll have like, a downspout that catches it and ushers it to the parking lot or the grass. Or, you know, whatever. And then other roots will have drains. And then those drains, same things. They'll just be pipes. Usually they're bigger, you know, they'll be like a 2 inch drain pipe. And that water will either like, you know, go down into that pipe and then it'll be routed through like a like, say, let's say the buildings made out of concrete, right. So there'll be a hole in the wall, and then it'll the water will go down this drain up on top of the roof. It'll follow the pathway and then. The the pipe will just shoot out of the wall like out into again the parking lot, or storm drain or whatever. Sometimes they're hooked up to this like city city lines, you know, and they're hard lined in to the same place like. You know your your sinks would go to or whatever, right? There's there's various ways to to treat it. Different buildings have a different construction. I mean, the architects handle all that. They, you know, they determine how to build the building and the best way to usher the water off. The building but all. Roofs should be designed to usher the water. Off the off the roof. We don't want water on the roof. So whatever your roof is, it should be designed in such a manner that the water doesn't stay.
Kelly:
You talked about roofs, you know, in different parts of the country. And I know you've been in like Phoenix and also Denver. Do they do anything special like in Denver for all the amount of snow that's sitting up?
Chris:
There. Yeah, I mean we do. I mean, hopefully other people do as well. I mean our our systems in Denver are. Are twice as burly as they are in Phoenix, so. You know, we the Denver from my understanding has the most freeze thaw cycles of anywhere in the country. You know it goes from below 32 to above 32 more times there than anywhere else. Well, you know all buildings are made out of building materials, right. There's metal, there's wood, there's concrete, there's. Asphalt. There's drywall, there's, you know, all kinds of stuff, right? So and all of those things have some level of expansion and contraction based on their temperature. So the hotter you get, something generally expands. There's the cold or something gets generally contracts, right and and. You know, metal is going to move at a different rate, it's it's going to, it's going to have a greater flex right than than say like concrete. And when you're when you have a building, it's made out of multiple different building materials, it will they all move at different rates now. It's small. You wouldn't be able to see it with your naked eye, right? You couldn't, like, watch a move, a rough move. But but it does. And well, all of those things put stress points on. So like, if I have a piece of metal right next to a piece of wood. And they're on the same roof that metal is going to move at a different rate than the wood is. And so the tie in the roof that goes across them is going to be at, there's going to be more strain put on that one line right there, right where the metal meets the wood, that roofing material is going to be stretched and pulled more frequently. And it's going to have more movement. And so. For like us and we take that into consideration and that's why the roofs that we put on in Denver are constructed differently than the roofs that we put on in Phoenix, Phoenix, essentially, you gotta hold up to Sun. That's pretty much it, man. They get some monsoons. They, you know, they it rains in Phoenix from time to time. But man, you know, 320 days out of the year, all you got to worry about his son. So you just need the most reflective system you can get your hands on. And in Denver, you know, you got to hold up to to more. Actually, Denver's got a lot of something, too, man. I'll tell you what, if you ever go out there. You ever roof in Denver, you realize like? It might not be 110 like it is in Phoenix, but my son, my skin sure burns fast in Denver, so, you know, being a Mile High, it makes a difference.
Kelly:
Yeah. I mean, the worst sunburn I actually ever got was spring skiing, skiing in California one time. It was like 70° but I was I was skiing. I got the worst sunburn you could imagine.
Chris:
Yeah, man, I mean it's. Yeah, believe it, dude. I mean, you know it. I I try my best. We all do. You know, that is one constant battle, you know, it's easy to say. Just always wear sunscreen like. You know when you say always, do you always do anything, right? So I've definitely been caught with a burn from time to time because I didn't think I was gonna be on the roof that long. And turns out I was on there longer than I thought.
Kelly:
So you know, you go, you go on all these roofs. So have you ever had an experience like, you know, I realize it's work and, you know, pretty hard work at times for what you're doing, but maybe. Building or the sites you see or something like that. You're just like, wow, this is just amazing looking around up here or what I see from up here.
Chris:
Yeah, you definitely get different perspective and and you realize I'll dive too deep into some of these, but you realize no one else thinks of you either, right? So when you're up on a roof, like when you're looking for something, no one ever looks up. And so we've definitely, I don't know if it's all the way clean enough for this podcast, but we've definitely seen some things where some people didn't realize. You could see them and you know the daughter. You, you know, you look to the right. You look to the left, you look, you know, you look around the wall and OK, nobody's looking. And then you. But no one ever thinks to look up and.
Speaker
Yes.
Chris:
Right. So we've definitely caught a couple of things over my career or clearly they did not know. We could see them and but yeah, you get some perspective, man, I'm I've worked right at the beach. Kelly, you know where you know that? I usually like. Well, you know, take a selfie or something. Right with the with the Pacific Ocean. You know, behind me? I've worked up in the mountains like, you know, in. Vail, Co or up in Boulder where you know it's just beautiful man and and absolutely like I I take the chance. I mean I do that at all aspects of my life. You know take an opportunity to to just appreciate where you're at and what you have. You know how how it smells how it looks like and yeah the roof definitely gives you a different perspective it takes. You know, it adds a lot of scenery, man. Cause, cause you know you're up as high as you get. You. You're you're at the highest point. So you know there's no walls blocking your view. There's no cars or trucks blocking your view, you know, I mean, you have, you have clear sight, you know, and depending on the building you're on, I mean, you could have clear sight for miles potentially.
Kelly:
So I'll throw you a curve because you know baseball's coming around. You might not know much about this at all, but sports stadiums, obviously the, you know, especially domes have roofs. And I know there's all kinds there, you know, but.
Speaker
Yeah.
Kelly:
You know, like here we're in Wisconsin, American family Field has its retractable roof, Safeco Field. What do you think those roofs are like?
Speaker
Uh, you know.
Kelly:
Let's just say the ones that are more not retractable.
Chris:
Yeah, I mean, I'm guessing they have a single ply membrane up there. So even the ones that are open stadiums, they still have roughed areas, right? So you know, they're they're still, you know, roofs over the the stairways, they're still roofs over all the concession areas. There's, you know, a lot of times they'll have like.
Speaker
Sure.
Chris:
You know, like the Huskies stadium, they have these two look like snakes, you know, attacking each other. Well, those are roofs. And to be honest with you, man, I mean, I I don't know, depending on the region of the country, I would guess many of them are single play like that PVC roof. I I was talking about PVC's, a really strong roof membrane. It's long lasting, very durable. Holds up to. Hot, cold, sun, whatever. And so you know, if you're building a. 5 million or 5 billion or you know, whatever dollar stadium. I bet you're go ahead and spend the the money to get the the best available roof system on there and but yeah, I don't know around the countries, especially some of the older buildings. I mean you know technology is always advancing. I mean as you know you're you're you live in the technology world, right. And there's always advancements and changes and you know the roofing is no difference. So what we did for you know, we don't use mud and sticks anymore, right? We we've evolved and and continued to grow in advance and more information has come to light where? Hey man, these other products are long lasting and the big one like for our Rd. systems and we're not the only ones who make systems like this, but the big one is like you know these systems like we put on a renewable. So you know once you put one of our roofs on, you don't have to build a membrane again you know potentially ever. So when we have 45 year old roofs that we've never put. Any more roof on there? All we do is add more coating to the top. You know about every ten 1015 years or so you go up and and you recode it and just as long as you continue to preserve the waterproof membrane underneath, as long as you don't let the sun hit it or you know snow, rest on it or or don't let you know water protrude into it or you know then that waterproof membrane that you put will last forever. So or it may not. Forever. But long, long time, right decades, and. So more and more people have realized, like, hey man, not only are they energy efficient and you know, they save us 15 percent, 18% on our energy bill every month. Once we put one of these energy efficient roofs on a lot of times, we don't have to take it off again. We don't have to reroof our building again. All we got to do is continue to maintain it with just, you know adding additional coating. Periodically.
Kelly:
So I want to jump back to something you said though, because you talked about snow. Do you know like and I honestly don't know like. In Colorado and stuff when it's, you know, snows 10 inches and all that, do they just leave all the snow up there and let it melt as it melt?
Chris:
Yeah. And and that you you'd be getting into structural engineering that is beyond my level of understanding and there's there's people get paid a lot of money to determine how much. Wait, a roof can bear. I do know this. Like the the kind of the general range, depending on the construction, pretty much the minimum weight on a square can hold or or like a square foot could hold would be like 5 lbs. And usually in in the roofing where we we talk about everything in 10 by 10 sections. So a square should be able to hold an absolute. Minimum of £500 on it and then it shoots up, you know well over 2000 lbs. You know it just depends on what it's made out of. You know if if it. Concrete and rebar and and you know it's going to be much stronger than like 2 by fours and and two by 10s would be right. So it depends what you're going to use your roof for. So you know I would anticipate before a building was constructed in Denver, Co or Boulder, Co someone. From the structural engineering world knew that, hey, this thing might have two feet of snow on it at some point, so you know, on your house a lot of times like, there's all kinds of mechanisms that you can have that that will. Take that snow off. For you, right, there's like wire systems and and various other man. I tell you what I I I just did a convention about 3 weeks ago I think in Vegas and the the the people in the booth right next to us. Really nice group of people and and you know you you end up interacting you get a lot of downtime at these conventions. Stay there for 8 hours and you get to talking to the people around you and they had a video on a loop and what they offered what they were selling was these. Is some type of snow snow protection? Some like it like prevents this snow, but they had this video on this loop and I was just mesmerized by it because all it was nothing but nonstop like video footage of these roofs. When the snow finally breaks, it's not like, you know, it's not like a snowball falls off the roof. It's like the whole all the snow. Falls off the roof, so a lot of snow falls off of some of these roofs and it shows people like walking down the sidewalk and all of a sudden they're just buried in an avalanche. Like, you know, just going to work, man, you know, so they had. I don't know, maybe 50-60 different episodes of like the roof falling off the OR the snow falling off the roof and catching like all these near misses. And like people, you know, almost getting buried, you know, alive in snow. And just like on the sidewalk, minding their own business. And yeah, I I watched that thing probably four or five times. Over the course. Of the show cause I was just like holy cow like. That person, like, literally almost died right there. You know what I mean? I don't know how much all the snow. Waves, but it sure looked like a lot.
Kelly:
You know, I mean, it's the kind of thing you don't think about every day, but you know, we all go in and out of these big buildings in our life.
Chris:
At times, yeah, but our flat roof skill? Yeah. The snow just stays there, man. I mean, if you had a problem area or some weak deck, if you knew your building had a weak spot, maybe they would send a maintenance guy up there to, like, shovel the snow off because hey. You know the weights too much in this area. Like you know, some of the a couple of the beams have broken. You know what I mean? Like, we gotta get it fixed. But right now, you know, we don't the money or whatever, you know. But other than that, pretty much on our roads, the snow just stays, man until it evaporates.
Kelly:
So just want to mention one other thing that also you mentioned caught my attention when you talked about you know we don't use mud and sticks. I was in New Mexico not too long ago where Adobe is really popular. It's amazing how that stuff works and you see some of these buildings there that are made out of. Adobe and stuff and it's just amazing what they can do.
Chris:
Ohh, some of those buildings are so old too. We we roofed those, we we roof out in New Mexico and out in New Mexico. The the roofs a lot of them are flat man. They don't have the same pitch roofs that we have almost everywhere else in the country. In my travels I haven't been everywhere but you know in my travels you know most of the residences are are pitched roofs. And but out in New Mexico, most of the residents are flat roofs, and they're they look just like commercial buildings. They're just smaller, you know, instead of being 400 squares, they're they're like 20 squares, right? So. And yeah, they have little walls around the perimeter. They'll have the Canales or drains or whatever. I mean, they're built just like most of our commercial flat roofs are. And actually our systems are on a number of residences out there and they were great. I mean, that's what they're built for. So it's a much smaller scale, you know, than what we usually do, but the. The principles are all the same. You know you're going to build a waterproof membrane and then it will hopefully usher all the water to the drain.
Kelly:
Well, that's cool.
Chris:
It's crazy. I mean, some of those buildings are so old, man and like, like you said that those, those old, that stuff works, man. The mutton sticks works, but.
Kelly:
Yeah, I just remember walking in, you know, just obviously about everywhere. I think most of the ones I was in were churches and stuff. But the other thing that's amazing to me because when I was there at times, it was warm. As those buildings stay pretty cool.
Speaker
Yeah.
Kelly:
In the inside.
Chris:
I mean, the humans are pretty smart, man. I mean, we've definitely. Uh, you know, come up with some pretty cool ideas over the years and, you know, dating back thousands of years and you know, it's we we. So we're evolving so much faster now and and everything is is just so much more rapid than it used to be. But if you think, you know historically man a lot of times we just kind of stuck with the same plan for. 2000 years. It's like it ain't. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right. And now we we monkey with stuff a lot more and a lot of it's good, you know, but. You know the the systems that we came up with, you know, 2-3 thousand years ago for construction were pretty, pretty, pretty solid ideas, man, they and they're long lasting.
Kelly:
Yeah, I mean, I read a little bit about Roman history and other histories. And I mean you look at just some of the buildings and and infrastructure that they had. Yeah, I mean we're we're an ingenious species, if you will.
Chris:
Yeah, agreed.
Kelly:
So hey, Speaking of people and genius, just to change gears a tiny bit, we did mention the NFL draft is coming up. I always find this time of year amazing in that. Right. Everyone wants to predict all these mock drafts, and I guess it's entertaining and you know it keeps the sport industry humm. But it's really fascinating to me just to go back once in a while and look at, like, even drafts from two or three years ago. You know, and see, I haven't done the math, but. You know the. If I call it failure rate it's, you know, I mean these are athletes, but just. The athletes that are taking at these top positions, you know that don't end up working out. I'm not going to necessarily say it's a failure because there's a lot of circumstances that make any athlete have success or not team a lot of culture, other things. But it's amazing with all the hype up until draft day and you know the first one or two years, just amazing to me. The amount of misses that we have in this great circus, they call the NFL draft.
Chris:
Well, and and you know, for all the money that's involved and all the effort that's put in and and just the hours and hours of of tape that's watched and the team of specialists and you know, these guys are all supposed to be, you know the the the best in the world at evaluating talent and they have all these mechanisms in place with the. Properties and the combine and and you know they and they have senior bowls and all these other ways that you know, not only the the film on the field like you can actually watch them play. All but but beyond that, there's all these other things that we try to do to to to turn over every rock and look, look under every nook and cranny. Right and and just. Yeah. And then and then just regularly brick out, man, just get it wrong, you know, over and over and over. And yeah, it's it's a tough. Ministry man and and and you know guys who can accurately evaluate talent and you know you can see it man you you you see the the clubs that have the the the better people in place that that are looking at this they somehow magically therefore throwing picks always work out like you know and. And it gives them a real edge. Man. I mean, that's why some franchises are continually, you know, a winning franchise and others, you know, continually just can't seem to get it together. And it's a tough gig, man. I mean, I, I I just recently got into it. So the combine just took place and I had kind of put football to bed for a little bit and and. Was on, you know, break or whatever and and. The Combine kind of got my juices flowing a little bit and I'm like, well, let me go. Let me go see how some of these guys are doing right and and so and that kind of sucked me back in. And just recently, like today, today even I had a conversation with a guy on the phone as I was driving. And yeah, he said the same thing. He's like, yeah, man, I thought I was done with it. But then the combine sucked me back in. And so him and I talked about, you know, some of our impressions of, you know, various wide receivers. I'm in a dynasty league with this guy, you know, and. And so, you know, we're gonna have a rookie draft and so much of it depends. You hit it running the head so much depends on so many factors outside of that persons ability, you know. And. There's a handful of guys that probably would excel in any circumstance. You know, there there's real rare, you know, talents that. It it really doesn't matter like where you put him, he's going to be good no matter what. TJ Watt could be on any NFL team and he would be amazing at rushing the passer and and playing defensive end right it it. It wouldn't matter what team he was on. He's going to be good. I think no matter what, right, Justin Jefferson is going to be good at catching footballs no matter who's throwing them and and things like that. But for the other 98% of the league? Man, where do you end up the scheme? You end up in the system you're in. I mean, there's. I mean, look at Kyle Pitts. Or, like Drake, London in Atlanta last year. Like, you know, you think that was a true indication of their actual skill sets? You know what I mean? Like they they just never got opportunities. And there's all kinds of people. You. Know. Eventually. Usually the cream rises, but look how long Steve Young sat behind Joe Montana. What? What if he never got a chance? You know, I mean that those kinds of things happen.
Kelly:
Well, they happen a lot and I think that, you know, think about, you know, even at the level before that college. I mean, these college teams, you know, they're stacking their depth chart up five, six players deep. Obviously, the ability to transfer a little more has gotten more, more people opportunities. Actually, you talked about the combine in the draft because I and I don't have the numbers down, but I I was reading this article where, you know, in days of old, if you were a quarterback that transferred, that was kind of like a big red flag for your draft stock, if you will. But nowadays I can't even remember the number, but it's. More than 50%, I think of the quarterbacks available in this year's draft are trans have transferred at least once and you know, because they're all those reasons and maybe they're stuck behind somebody else and they're not going to get on the field or the the circumstances weren't right.
Chris:
Yeah, I mean, we're we're in a different era in sports, Kelly and and. The the setup of the sports themselves are different, but also the individuals, the young adults who are playing them are different and it's it's a more and more empowered athlete and the systems that are in place are set up for for them to have more power and more flexibility and and. Greater control over their own destiny. There's good and bad, man. I mean, there's some things I like about it and some things I don't, but. You know that that's just reality we're in, man. I mean, there's just you. Look at all the guys like, look, how many key guys didn't even workout at the combine. They're like, no, I don't have to. You know what I mean? And and this is what my agent told me this when my family, the people I trust, have told me this is my best path. So, you know, in the past, like, dude, if a guy didn't show up in and compete like, that would have been a real knock on him. You. But nowadays, like so many people are doing it and it's just like and all you just got to accept it, man. You know, like I said, there's pros and cons, man, there's things I wish I could throw back and and say, hey, I wish it was more more like the olden days. And then there's other things that say, man, it's a really good moves, you know that, you know, the reality is you got to remember this is an individual human being, and sometimes it can be frustrating. 'cause. They look like spoiled brats, you know? And and like, hey, tough it out, man. Tough it out, kids. You know, you know, grind through and stuff, so go earn your spot. You don't stay. Stay where you committed to. And then at the other hand, it's like, hey man, this is an individual who's trying to do the best he can for himself or herself. And, you know, they should have a right man. They shouldn't be held captive. You know what I mean? If if you're not giving them the opportunity that they want, they should have the freedom. I mean, I can move jobs if I don't like where I work. I can leave. You know, why shouldn't he or she be able to to move somewhere different? Yeah, I don't. I don't.
Kelly:
You know, I think that whether you're an athlete or whatever, as you mature there. Part of growth is learning that balance between like you said, toughing it out and honoring commitments and figuring out when not to and when you got, when it's best to move. But I I would tell. Right. There's no, no team that guarantees. If I sign here that the coach I sign with is going to be there for all of my career. So you know, they're not going to hold the. The. Coaches and all the other stuff, especially in this college environment, I'm a big fan of empowering the athletes. More than they have been because I think up until recently it's really been like individual theft, Doms and you know. The coaches dictator and I get it. It's sports and there's we're just in a totally evolutionary thing and I think that you said something that I think is right on. And I think with the way that like things like a combine and other things have evolved, it's going to be even more paramount. The people that can figure out how to evaluate. Talent with whatever data they do and don't have, right? I mean, I don't know if I'm those people. That's what's really going to have to continue to grow as an art form and a talent because. You know, OK, the guy doesn't, you know, too much at the combine. Maybe he has a pro day and he throws a little there. He's a quarterback or does something. But you know you're making multi $1,000,000 decisions on less information than you had before?
Chris:
Yeah, agreed. I think you're 100% correct and I think it is a talent and the and the people who have the talented people will will have better football teams as a result of it and. You know, it's such a tough thing because there there's very it's not mathematics, it's not accounting, it's it's not a a quantifiable thing that you can throw in a bunch of numbers into a A, you know, into a spreadsheet and come out with the right answer. It's not that. I mean it's it's you're trying to translate. Skill set like OK, he played at Western Kentucky against this quality of cornerback and. You know you're trying to guess how that might translate. You know, he runs this 40 yard dash, but he doesn't have any pads on when he runs his 40 yard dash. He doesn't. You. Know what he doesn't have cleats on like?
Kelly:
Well, he's not taking hits all along the way either.
Chris:
Right man, I mean, you know, you, you know, there's.
Kelly:
The 40 yard dash is one that I I'm yes, it's interesting and it shows you some things about raw speed. And I mean, they've gotten more analytics where they can show you kind of the player speed at every step along the way, but you know. I tell you, man. They're not sitting out there with taking the hits and all the other things, and they're not running that in the fourth quarter after they've been hit 25 times in the game to see where they are then so.
Chris:
Yeah. And it's it's not 28° and windy out either. And you know what I mean and there there's no cornerback in the league who's gonna let you take your pads off. And then get into a starting block and then take off running as fast as you can. You know he's gonna stand in front of you and hit you so I don't care how fast you can run in a straight line. You know, in, in, in the football world, someone's going to be in front of you trying to. Stop you from. Doing that and so, but they're all data points, right, Kelly? I mean, they're it's all information, it's pieces. You know, take everything with a grain of salt. Like you gotta look at the totality of all the information available and then you just that's why you like you hit right in the head, man. It's it's art. You know what I mean? You gotta be able to see through everything, how it's gonna translate. And and then scheme by scheme, team by team. You know, there there there's running backs. Who you look at like a Terrell Davis man who was one of the greatest, like, single cut running backs in a in a a zone blocking scheme of all time, you know, short career. But you know he just had he just dude he could just pick a lane and go and other. You know Leon Bell's not like that. You know what I mean? There's there's a lot of backs who don't run. That way, and you gotta get the right running back for how you plan on blocking. So, so. So his vision is optimized. And so you know his attributes are optimized and and that's how you're gonna gain the most yards per carry. You know what I mean by by putting people in the best position to succeed and all these guys who are drafting they got to know all that information. Hey man how do we plan on blocking you know I mean we gonna be a power scheme we gonna be his own scheme. And what we're. To do here, you know, do we need a back? They can catch the ball. You know what I mean? Do we need receivers that can block? Are they gonna play in San Francisco or you're expected to lock up with somebody and and block them? You know, 20 yards down the field and and stay engaged and continue to block or, you know, I think it's going to be free to, to, to run. They don't have to block anybody. That's not the kind of, you know, game we run here and and they know all those people that are involved in the scouting department. And and GM's. And you know all all that staff, it's. Yeah. You know, it's a lot of information to process and it's almost all incomplete. All the information individually in a vacuum is not enough information. You know his tape when he was in college, not enough information. His 40 yard dash time, not enough information. You know, how much could he pinch? Not enough information, you know, on and on and on. You know, you look at a guy like. Aaron Donald, who's, you know, widely considered one of the greater interior defensive lineman of the of the most recent generation right for the last 20 years or so you'd be in the conversation. And yeah, he was really strong and everything, but you didn't know he was gonna be dominant like that man. Like, it's a dude who understands how to use leverage and understands his body and how it compares to others and how to, you know, I mean, there's none of that stuff is measurable, really. And then drive and hard and want to. And none of that's measurable. You could try. You can interview the guy, and they're all gonna say they love football. Man, you know what I mean? So which one's telling the truth? And which one really loves football, you know? And which one's gonna stop loving football when he's 24 and has his first child? You know what I mean? Like, you don't know any of that stuff.
Kelly:
Yeah. And I think it's also just interesting, I mean, obviously, so in this draft, I'm really curious. It's always interesting to see you know how the players, you know had one. Level of talent or success. How that I mean, you know, now we're going pro now. This isn't just a college thing, although I mean that's becoming more and more pro itself. But I mean this is it, this is the top of it. And I'm curious like. In this year's draft, you know, obviously there's a a young man out of my hometown, Fond du Lac, WI played for the Badgers for three years and then left school Bryan Allen running back. You know, reports I read, you know, said, you know, he didn't have as great a combine. This probably would have been ideal for him, so I'm really curious to see not just him, but that is 1 where he ends up with the draft and how his pro career career turns out.
Chris:
Yeah. And and especially at the running back position, the running back position is so heavily opportunity based and you are so dependent on, I don't think anyone would deny that Saquon Barkley is one of the better running backs in in you know it will in the world you know in the National Football League. And but man, if your line sucks like dude. I can't do this all by myself, man. And you know, on and on and on the the running back position specifically has evolved so much into this. Man, you're you're. I mean, if you can get 12 carries a game, dude, you're you're one of the leading carriers. You know what I mean? Like that. That's that's, you know, 15 carries is like a rare air. Now, you know, it's not the days of Jim. Jim Brown days are gone, man. You know Earl Campbell? You, they they don't do that anymore. Right. So you know, everybody is spelled in specialty. Eden, a guy like Braylon Ellen, like you're talking about. I mean, you know, he could be amazing at the NFL level or he can end up in a place where he just, you know, it's just a like a A1 yard and a cloud of dust guy at the goal line. You know what I mean? And. And he's getting 4 carries a game. So, you know, it's all going to boil down to opportunity scheme. You know what I mean? Like, he's going to need some things to break his. Is he? Is he capable? Yeah, absolutely. You know, he just needs to end up in the right spot, man. And and and be given the chance to. So you know, you just wonder, especially especially more so at the running back than anywhere else. It is so much of it is out of your hands.
Kelly:
Yeah, it is because you really, I mean look, man, you've got to you've unless you know the the bulldozer of I'm just going to break everybody down. It doesn't really work that much anymore just you know hey your body can't take it but just you'll wear out really quick. So if you don't have something align. Or, you know, the ability as a running back to catch the short pass or something like what's your hook to let your speed, you know, burst out eventually you're, you know, you are going to become that one yard in a cloud of dust at the goal line guy and those. Those guys are you can find them anywhere.
Chris:
Yeah, I mean, you can find a big body that can that can slam his face forward, you know? Yeah, it's really tough, man. I mean, you know, and like I said, like I said just a second ago, it's so much you could want to all you want. You could work as hard as you want in the weight room, in the film room and and you know, you can know the playbook inside and out and and you can you can do everything in your power to be the best possible. And it's all running back. You can be and at the end of the day you can still be terrible. Because the other things that are outside of your control are too much to overcome, a ****** offensive line, a ****** offensive coordinator, terrible quarterback who can't complete a third down, and so you know, you're 3 and out all all game long every game and you just don't get the opportunity man. You might be all the way ready to go and and physically capable and you've done everything in your power but yet. You you don't realize the results because of things like I said that are outside of your control. So you know you look at the quarterbacks and and you know that look at just last year man as as soon as less than a year ago. Carolina Panthers straight up gave gave away amid a a of draft capital to go get Bryce Young. By all accounts, he had an absolutely atrocious season. You know, I hope for his sake that you know a change in coaching and and you know a fresh start and you know will will will be good for him and and he can. You know, get get on track, but by all accounts it was an epic failure last year and and then CJ Stroud, who was picked second. I mean, he look, he looks all world man. I mean, the guy the guy looks like Joe. Joe Montana out there. Dude, it's like, why was this guy picked second, you know? And and how did you guys get this so wrong and? You know, it just tells you how tough it is this year. The hot, the hot name right now is JJ McCarthy, Michigan Wolverines quarterback. I mean, obviously, he knows about winning, man. I mean that that program was dominant under him just coming off the national championship. I mean, you know, but he wasn't asked to do a ton in college and he showed up to the combine and basically threw a football through a brick wall. And it's like, oh, wow, he's, you know, he's got all these great measurables and. Then you got another guy like Jayden Daniels who's also shot up draft boards, won the Heisman, played at LSU. But you know there he was throwing to Malik neighbors and Brian Thomas junior, and now he was up against SEC Competition, which is essentially like minor league football. So he did it in. In an environment that was about as challenging as you could do it, but he also had all kinds of help. You know, you let me throw passes to, you know, Jamar Chase repeatedly. Like my numbers probably be pretty good, right? So if you got 2. You know all world type of wide receivers, you know, both of whom are gonna be picked in the first round in the NFL draft. It's like, OK, are you really good or are you just getting getting the ball to other guys who made you look good? You know, it's. Hard to tell. I don't know. You know what I mean? And so. All these guys are gonna be picked, you know, Caleb Williams is very likely to go to Chicago, and by all accounts, he's the clear cut #1. You know any ranking you look at? Has Caleb Williams number one and. Unless someone's just like going out of their way to be different, the the only caveat I'm talking about just quarterbacks. The only caveat is maybe Marvin Harrison junior. A lot of people think he's the best guy in the draft period like regardless of position. But if you're talking quarterbacks, pretty much everybody is Caleb Williams head and shoulders above, and then there's some some debate about. Drake may, Jayden Daniels, JJ McCarthy, but I don't. Know I just watched college football. And to me, like sure seemed like Michael Pennis junior was the like, the best quarterback. Like, I don't know, he kept winning games and throwing touchdowns and and going to the national championships. Like, I don't know, I I just watched all these guys play and to me panics looked the best. So but he's way down the list. You know what I mean? And it's it's just so hard to know, man.
Kelly:
Yeah. I mean, somebody like Williams is again, you know, fascinating, right? Because, you know, he's by all. Pretty much every every. Quote expert hey, this guy is the, you know, going to be another camp miss and you know. Worlds filled with camp miss?
Chris:
Missus.
Kelly:
Things misses. And so you know, who knows, man and and like, for better or worse. And you know. Yeah, I'm not a Bears fan for sure. But Chicago doesn't exactly have a stellar track record of developing quarterbacks, correct. And so who knows?
Chris:
Yeah, you don't, man. You don't know. So even Trevor Lawrence, who was the last that I can remember, can't miss Guy. You know you got off to a rocky start. We just chalked it up to, like, oh, that was Urban Meyer. And that was a debacle. And and that wasn't Trevor Lawrence. His fault. Then he came back the next year and he looked better. And it's like, OK, yeah, OK. It was Urban Meyer's fault. And then this year, you're expecting a step forward, and you really didn't see it. And it's like ohh. You know, I don't know, maybe it's the receivers really aren't that good, you know? And and it's like at some point, like, dude, you gotta you gotta step up and be the guy, man. And and to this point, Trevor Lawrence hasn't. And you know, he's good. He's good. I like Trevor Lawrence. And I think he still has potential. He's young enough and and he looks like an NFL quarterback. Absolutely. And but he hasn't really. He he he's not an elite NFL quarterback, so I don't know. He was the last camp Miss Guy that I can remember most recently and. You know these? There's no such thing as a can't miss man. Even Marvin Harrison junior, who by all accounts is, you know, just a clear number one wide receiver. Just unbelievable pedigree. And. And he's been learning how to be a wide receiver since he was in the womb. Right. And, you know, even with bad quarterback. Play last year at Ohio State, he still managed to get his right. He still was for a productive wide receiver and got numbers, even even with shabby quarterback play, and he was elite when Shroud was there the year before and. And you know well, you know, if he goes to New England and Matt Jones is throwing the ball like, I don't know how good is Marvin Harris going? To. Be really, you know what I mean? Like, how good can you be? I don't. Care who you put in a. Bad offense. So you need somebody to throw you.
Kelly:
Yeah, I mean. Know. The ball man, you know, it's like a running back needs a line and quarterbacks. They have somebody that can get the ball to them reliably. So it's always, you know, in the NFL I guess has figured out how to make a multi billion dollar business out of all this speculation because a lot of people watch it. A lot of people talk about it and like I said earlier on their salary cap just went up by $30 million a team to a $255 million.
Chris:
Right. Yeah. Just turn on the TV. Kelly, turn on ESPN, turn on, turn on the TV. You know, open up a like an app. You know what I mean? Like Yahoo or or ESPN or, you know, CBS Sports or something. And football still represents 40% of the content. And it's dude, they're they're not even in their season. They couldn't be any farther away from season. But, you know, basketball's in full swing, hockey's in full swing. NASCAR's going, you know, golf's firing up like and yet football in their offseason. So it is like at the half the conversation still about football. So that kind of tells you like, how how big a share of the pie. NFL has.
Kelly:
Dude, if you go back to this week, the biggest sports story was probably, you know. A player retiring. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Chris:
You know, and also LeBron James hit 40,000 points, so. But let's take you back to Jason Kelsey.
Kelly:
Yeah, I mean so.
Chris:
Yeah, no, I it is what it is bad. And I, you know, I I'm just as bad. Like I said, I had kind of taking a little hiatus and it kind of, you know, got out of my mind for a while and then all of a sudden. I I got wrote back in too, man. I'm not the only one in America who started thinking about football again. And even though the season doesn't start for six months. Yeah, we're on our podcast talking about it right now, buddy. So you know to be like, it's just football skiing, man.
Kelly:
Well, we will take our audience to the next episode down the road and thank everyone for listening again this week to an episode of the podcast by name later. Really, Chris love. How you kind of. I learned a lot about what you do when you know you're not. Talking sports with me. And so I find it fascinating myself about how people do different jobs and just what's involved in them. So I really appreciate you.
Chris:
Yeah, I got a little perspective on that today. I took, I was at our plant in Los Angeles and I took the plant manager up on the roof and I realized, you know, you can make all the products and everything. But I realized like man, he, you know, he's he was asking me about the the end game and and the application and it's like man, I don't know anything hardly about the manufacturing. Not much, you know, and I certainly couldn't run a plan, that's for sure. And and I realized, man, he he does he, you know, he's still learning about the roof application and how it goes. And I was explaining like what we're going to do and and. Yeah. So you know it, it's nice, man. I've been doing this a bunch lately and I've this has been on my mind a little bit about perspective and and you know no one person can know everything in the world, right? And that's why it's important to have these conversations with different people and and and and get perspective and see things you know, you know, a bunch of stuff about about what you know, right. And you can, I don't need to know it all, but man, you could give me a lot just through a conversation and, you know, hopefully, you know, we as people do more and more of that man and and and share more and. You know. I don't think you're ever gonna be in roofing, but it doesn't hurt to to kind of have some perspective from someone who is. And I'm probably never gonna work on computers, brother, but it doesn't hurt to have a little knowledge about how they work.
Kelly:
No. You got it. Alright Chris. Thanks again and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the podcast to be named later.
Chris:
Alright. Thanks Kelly.