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Announcer:
Welcome to The Podcast to be Named Later, where we explore the world a conversation at a time.  Sit back and enjoy.  Here are your hosts, Chris and Kelly.

Kelly:
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the podcast to be named later. Chris couldn't be with us today, he says. He was busy. I think he's off trying to make more fantasy football deals since he's leading our league, although I've made a great leap from 8th place 5th last week and all the way up to third this week. So Chris, I'm coming for you and you better get back on the podcast. In Chris's absence, I've got a longtime friend, baseball pal, coworker, and all around good guy that I've known for a long time. As I said Clint Jorgensen, Clint's out in Seattle and welcome to the podcast Clint.
Clint:
Hey, congratulations, Kelly. Glad to be glad to. Be here.
Kelly:
Great. Really happy to have you here. So Clint, I mean you and I baseball season's over, but back in the day you and I attended more than our share of Mariner games. What happened to the old ends this year, they fell just a little. Bit short.
Clint:
Oh my gosh, yes. And I was there all the way up to the end 2 two years ago. I was at the game when Cal hit the home run to get us in the playoffs. This year, we fell about two games short. It will hurt as every year does and we don't get to the playoffs, but the coach just doesn't understand strategy in baseball. That's the way I look at it.
Kelly:
Jerry Dipoto, he sure understands it because he sure took a lot of heat for saying, hey, I just want to win 54% of the games.
Clint:
Yeah, that's, you know, he did say that. But you know, when you look out over the landscape, that's what it took to get to the playoffs. And he's just going by numbers. So Jerry does a great job bringing in new players and new talents and and and building a team that can actually sustain. It's just that the coach just kills me. Because he doesn't bunt, he doesn't get runners across from from, from being on the base to get across home base. He just doesn't know how to get him across and and to position players and make sure they actually put the ball down to move the runners along and just kill. Tells me that's my take though.
Kelly:
You know, I'm. I moved to Seattle in late 2000, so I kind of got spoiled that first year it was like magic, when the Mariners won 116 games. You know, it's almost like ancient history now, but that town can be a baseball town. We saw it in 2001. And it was almost impossible to get a ticket and everything was electric.
Clint:
Yeah. And it's been that way down on the end for a couple of years now. I mean we it, it's it was hard to get a ticket at the end of this year, last year, two years ago, that we're always what one or two bats away, right? That's the Mariners.
Kelly:
They are quite a team. I I still think that they've got a lot of potential. They're in a tough division with Houston. And Texas and the Angels, who knows what they'll ever do? I mean, that team blows me away and that they've had some of the best players in baseball, and they can't seem to get above 500.
Clint:
Which which team's that?
Kelly:
The the angels.
Clint:
Ohh yeah, no, they angels they they have problems and I think they're going to be they're going to lose some players here I believe.
Kelly:
Well, I'm pretty sure they're gonna lose joy attani. And who knows what they're going to do with Mike Trout? I mean, he's already in the back half of his career, and that's unfortunate.
Clint:
Yeah, he's a he's a stellar player. We've watched him a lot, I mean. Plus, Otani watched him quite a bit here, and when they come to the Mariners, it's always fun to watch players from other teams, other divisions, but.
Kelly:
Well, Clint here at the podcast, to be named later. One of the things we like to do is, you know, I don't see. And my nephew Chris will sometimes also give us a few descriptions of different sporting things. Can you go back to your memory and just kind of nice, just imagine a nice sunny day. What? What's Safeco Field look like? And can you give us a little bit of a description of Safeco Field?
Clint:
Yeah, Safeco Field is actually. Pretty amazing on sunny day. I mean, I'm usually on the first base side, you and I have been out. My what? King's court? Anyone from left field? It's just it's it's. It just looks like one big amphitheater and blue sky up above, seagulls floating around and just the sound of the ballpark with people you. Know hot dog. Vendors and and you know the the guy that threw the peanuts behind the back and just people getting beers and just a bunch of. You know, the Edgar calls and the of old when would chant Edgar Edgar. And it was just. It's just a fun ballpark to be at, and especially when there's two strikes on the batter and. And the Mariners are playing for some type of position in their league or a good game, you'll fans will get up and they'll still do the wave. You've been you and I've done the wave together and. It's just it feels electric at times. If you're looking from home plate plate out to center field, you see this beautiful blue sky. OK, yeah, just beautiful blue sky. And the and the nice, Safeco. Safeco sign. It's still there. Is it say T-Mobile now, I think, yeah, T-Mobile part, but T-Mobile Park. But what it what was the first year 2000?
Kelly:
Yeah, T-Mobile.
Clint:
I something?
Kelly:
No, I think it opened in 98 or something like that.
Clint:
90 OK 98.
Kelly:
Maybe 99?
Speaker
But yeah.
Clint:
I've been there pretty much opening day for almost I think this year is the only year I haven't been to opening season day at the Mariner Ballpark, but some great games.
Kelly:
I had a run of like it's kind of fun. As much of a baseball fan as I've been this year was the first year I made the Milwaukee Brewers opening day, I mean, I lived out of state for a long time and I had a run of like 5 or 6 Mariners opening days back in Seattle. Kind of fortunate in that my birthdays in early April and a lot of times they're home. Home more than one of their home openers was actually on my birthday, so that was like a double treat.
Clint:
Yeah, absolutely. You know the the Mariner ballpark is a fun place to go and it sure beats the pants off of the King Dome. King Dome was kind of small in terms of. You know, hitting the, hitting the lines to go. Get some type of burger or something that and go to the restrooms. It was just a joke in the King Dome, but King Dome was kind of electric too, especially in 9596. 97.
Kelly:
I will say that the folks at safe call called the T-Mobile. I think they've really made a a nice ballpark and know that more than once you and I hung out in. Edgar's Canteen area left field. Standing up by the rail and I think that was this really special place to watch a ball game.
Clint:
Yep, you're right. At the left field foul pole. You're you're the bar is just right there. And so when there's hitting practice, they have a little net over on the top, but yeah. We sat. Right there and watched, hitting practice and had a beer or maybe two. We won't say how many. We had. Yeah, it's. It's actually just a fun.
Kelly:
Yeah. I I really think I mean, well, Seattle Summers are generally. Pretty beautiful. And you know, high 70s, low 80s, you get a gentle breeze. The other thing I always remember from evenings at Safeco and was the train whistle is the trains going by.
Clint:
Absolutely. Yep, especially right before the game should always get one as you were going to the park or walking to get to the front front of the. Park to get in. Definitely to hear the sound of the train.
Kelly:
So, I mean, Safeco Field's magical and it's a ball field and I know that we've actually walked down the field as well. I remember one year. I'm sure you remember when they let you sit in the dugout or wherever you wanted for a Mariners home opener, way opener. They opened up the the field for a home. Fans to watch the Mariners being wicked.
Clint:
I think I said.
Speaker
Right.
Kelly:
So that was kind of cool. But Clint, you've not only, you know, sat at baseball fields, you've actually been on the field. The competition in sports, different sport, football as a quarterback.
Clint:
Absolutely, yeah.
Kelly:
Yes indeed. So what high school did you play quarterback for?
Clint:
Quarterback for Kelso High School out of Kelso, WA. The Kelso Highlanders. And we chanted, we are Kelso. As we walked through to the start of the game, it was pretty pretty. Impressive. It was pretty fun.
Kelly:
So I'd love to chat with you a little bit. You know, I've chatted with Chris a little bit, who was a high school running back, just asking point blank. Were you any good?
Clint:
You know, you know, I was for my size. We were good as a team. I mean I I was held my own as a had a great arm, didn't run the ball that well. We ran a veer option but passed the ball really well. And you know I always had winning teams.
Kelly:
So describe if you can. You know again here on the podcast to be named later. Can you kind of layout how the viewer option works and what players are all doing?
Clint:
Yeah, the veer option is a pro set. There's two running backs in the back and the whole purpose is is to. We had a 100 side was the right side, 900 side was the left side is if we called like a one. Hundred option the the right half back. You have a right half back and a left half back and the right half back would dive round about the three hole which is over the tackle basically and you have the option. Of reading the defensive end if the defensive end crashed down on the running back, you would keep the ball and run outside the. Right end and you'd have a trailing half back who would be your who was the left tail back. He would be about 5 yards away from you, about a 45 degree angle and you would have the option if someone. Came up to. You to pitch the ball to him or take the ball up field and run. So it was called the triple option. For that reason you have a dive. Person you could hand off to you would or you could keep the ball. So you either had the option of handing it off if the. If the defensive end did not crash down, you'd hand it off, he'd go upfield, or you kept the ball, or you'd pitch the ball. Those are your three options, and that's why it's called the the Veer triple option.
Kelly:
So it's a quarterback whether you're playing high school ball college, you know pros. A lot of things run through you. I mean, you're obviously calling the play the the key guy. How did you learn all this? Just. I mean, how do you learn the? Playbook and just. How to take that leadership position? How do you learn all that 1415 year old?
Clint:
You you speak. Yeah, right. So I started. Actually at in 7th grade as a quarterback 7th and. You you, how you you. Just spend a lot of time with the playbook and memorizing the plays and in practices you ran them over and over and over ad nauseam. You ran the place. Over and over. And you know you would, you would just memorize the playbook. The playbook was pretty, you know, deep and it was a a skill that, you know, you learn in school is you memorization is what it was, wrote memorization.
Kelly:
So you're walking out there, you know, it's the first play of the game when you're on offense. What's going through your mind?
Clint:
Execute execution and then you always look at the when you're coming up to the line, you're always looking out and looking or or. You know you're thinking, are they running man to man or are they running zone and you had certain things you needed to do that you have practiced? If it's man to man versus zone? And if you see deep, so you're it's execution basically and and running the play as you've ran thousands of times over in practice and that's why you practice like you play and you play like you practice.
Kelly:
So what? What is it like you know, sometimes the play goes South. And what was that like when you were sacked as a quarterback?
Clint:
Getting sacked cause you know I'm 5/8. I mean I had guys 66, you know, 280 crunchy it. You know, you learn how to fall, basically running the option. If someone's coming at you, you learn to fall back and pitch the ball just as I would imagine as a, you know, stunt men do in movies. You learn how to fall so you don't hurt yourself and. But there are sometimes, you know, my elbows still today. If I touch a certain elbow the wrong way, it has like, a a bone bruise and it hurts from being hit so many times and falling on the ground with, then hitting the ground with my elbows.
Kelly:
So, so. So you've gotten knocked down. You're, you know, you're in a little bit of pain. Hopefully one of your pals helps you up a little bit. You got to get the next playoff pretty quick. What? How do you how do you learn to adapt to?
Clint:
Yeah. Well, you, you shake it off, you know, they say just suck it up and shake it off. And that's exactly what you do. You just get back to the huddle and you've done it so many times over and over. And I never really got hit. There's only been one time that I got hit so hard, I think it dislocated my jaw from a defensive end crashing. Down on me but. You know, I think I sat out a player. Do and they they kind of put your job back into shape and you learn how to play through the pain. Is the superordinate goal is to win the game and to execute and to score points, and it seems like when you know when you're doing that with your buddies on the field, the Super Ordinate goal just kicks in and you just don't feel some of the pain sometimes. But then afterwards it does come and hit you. Hard the next day, just like if you probably ran a marathon. I don't run marathons, but you get you're sore. You're pretty Dang sore the next day. If you know how often you got hit by the next day or the day after the second day was the worst.
Kelly:
Chris and I, as from time to time, have talked about these small areas of opportunity for like for professional quarterbacks to throw a ball, how accurate were you?
Clint:
Pretty accurate. I had a strong arm for a little guy. We ran a lot of down and outs and then once you read the defenses, there's down, out and up. I could throw the ball 6065 yards. I could throw at 35 yards on a rope so. It was pretty accurate and I've got a lot of compliments and I had one scholarship when I left, when I was in high school, I had one scholarship, which I didn't take, and that was down in Pacific University, out of Portland OR somewhere.
Kelly:
And recently, when we were just shooting the breeze through text messages, you mentioned, I think you actually attended some camps with other like. Names we might know is that whatever.
Clint:
Yeah, 15 years old. I was one of the youngest. I think it it was 15 to about college quarterbacks also and it was in Spokane, WA at Whitman College, Whitworth College and it was called the Old Northwest Football. Camp in 1975, Kenny Stabler and Fred Biletnikoff were the two people that ran the RAN. The club ran the camp and you got you got to learn quite a bit about execution and how to throw the ball, how to release quick. The receivers got to learn a lot from Fred Biletnikoff on how to run routes to diverge attention from one area to the next, so they got open and it was absolutely a blast. And I learned quite a bit at that football camp.
Kelly:
So I know this was a while ago for you obviously, but when you watch football. Do you? Do you ever have a Daydream of Walter Mitty? Kind of. Hey, I could have. Been out there.
Clint:
No, no, no. But there are certain plays you go, my gosh. Why'd they do it that way? They're situational. Plays you're just wondering, like, why did they do that? They could have done this. Or why is he throwing the ball sideways? He's or winding up when he's throwing his? He's wasting his time and that's why he got sacked. I mean, I used to say that a lot about and I still do with Russell Wilson. It winds up instead of putting the ball back by his ear and getting a quick release. You know, like a Peyton Manning. I did so, but no, I had, you know, small college. Yes, but I don't have. I mean, that would be fantasy world, you know, for me to say that I could be in a, like, a Doug Flutie and be in the NFL. And by the way, in in college at intramurals, that was kind of my nickname was Flutie.
Kelly:
How even as a so as a young young man, you know you're for 15/16/17 and I'm sure there's a lot of personalities in every wide receiver wants you to throw the ball to him. And running backs want you to hand the ball off to him. How did you as a, you know, young man learn to manage all that?
Clint:
Well, you know, I think even in college, in high school football, the offensive coordinator and coach runs the plays in you. Only the only time you really have to improvise is if you see a defense acting one way and you have a hot number. And you're gonna run an audible. And I ran a few audibles. You know, if you're somebody is and I can see, he's gonna crash down and they're going to, they're going to rush the quarterback. I'll run a hot play and get the. Get the tight end really quick. Throw up the middle on the hash mark and we did that a few times for for touchdowns. But really you have set plays, you're going to run and that we were a running team. We, you know, probably passed the ball. I probably passed the ball maybe 820 times at the most per game. I think the most I had was. 300 yards in a game or 280 yards in a game, but we ran the ball quite a bit and we had set plays for set individuals and we had some pretty fast tail back back, so there's not a lot of. There was not a lot of. You know, I want the ball, I want the ball. Give me the ball type things because we had set plays, we ran those in practice and that's what. We ran in the. Games, so I didn't really have to deal with. A lot of that.
Kelly:
So no quarterbacks. Perfect. I'm sure you threw a pick or two.
Clint:
So a pick six only had one, it was Tacoma. We were a Taco. It was like second in the state. There were AAA team or AAA. They came down to Kelso Longview area. We played them and I think Carter or this guy, is he. I think he went to Notre Dame and was the starting tailback. For Notre Dame, but he. Pick the ball and ran it back seven and pick six off the and. We weren't even supposed to be close to him, but we took him into triple overtime and we lost in triple overtime.
Kelly:
So what goes through your mind when you you know you, you throw that interception, what goes through your mind?
Clint:
Well, you, you're saying? Well, first of all, there's a few few choice words that come out of your mouth and then you're obviously. I mean, I had to. I ran after him and tried to tackle him. Didn't get it, didn't get there. I got knocked on my asks by somebody that blocked me off. And it doesn't feel good. But you realize, you know, there's going to be mistakes. I was trained to if you make a mistake, get get up off your *** and go run another play, right? So sure it hurts there for a while, but it's not the end of the world. You gotta continue to play.
Kelly:
Are there on the positive side? I'm sure you also had like, you know, those experiences. Maybe it's a really good throw or something else of memory that even today when you think back about Friday night on the field that you know Bruce Springsteen would say glory days, but just one of those plays where you like man I. I'm Clinton. I got it going on on that one.
Clint:
Right. We well, I had a few touchdowns. So my. I think my my most memorable one is a really good friend, Lloyd Malone, 9th grade football. We were last game of the year and if we would win it we would tie the championship and it time ran out on the clock. I have the ball. I saw him close to the goal line. I threw it to him. He ran another 15 yards in the end zone and we won the game with zero time left on the clock and we tied for the championship in 9th grade and so that was probably the. I I still remember that I the game I mentioned to you about triple overtime. I just remember throwing the ball in the end zone and touchdown to get it into overtime touchdown passes. They just feel really, really good, especially when they're longer. Passes and they basically got to the touchdown based off of your length of your pass. But. Touchdowns and home runs all feel good.
Kelly:
When you played high school ball, were you a two way player or just quarterback?
Clint:
In high school, just quarterback in junior high, I was a two way player.
Kelly:
You ever. It's pretty amazing to see in in college ball this this guy for Colorado that's playing both ways.
Clint:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I don't even see how that's. I mean, that's a lot of time on the field. I forgot his name. He got hurt that second game or third game, didn't he?
Kelly:
Yeah, just came back this week.
Clint:
And he and he just came back. And that's too bad too, because they got crushed by Oregon. I think that game, didn't it?
Kelly:
Yeah, yeah. So football for you was a while ago, Clint. But you know, I've always heard and from people that, you know, some of the lessons that you learn in, in these sports kind of carry through with life. You've obviously had a career working in software in different ways.
Speaker
After that is.
Kelly:
Are there lessons that you learned and took forward from football?
Clint:
Leadership and being in groups and making decisions on the fly. I think one of the my pet peeves about, you know, any business is there's a lot of people that just don't know how to make a decision and making a decision on the spot and leading A-Team and making that decision. And and that's pretty much the lesson that I learned. And then execution. I mean, you've got to go out and get it done to accomplish the end game and. That those were life lessons. I believe that I've carried on throughout my life ability to make a decision on the spot.
Kelly:
What was it like, you know? Just getting all. Dressed up for the game with all the pads and everything. What what goes through your mind when you're doing all that?
Clint:
Well, you know, I listened to music, we didn't have a big stereo in our in our field house before the game, but I just focused on the plays and and talk to, you know, tried to talk to the team, my team members, and I did talk to my team members and get them jazz insight in a in a fashion to where they're not over excited, where they, you know, just burn themselves. Before the game, but I've seen people I had a really good friend named Dan Hanks. He was extreme, like hitting his head on the. You know, hit the head on a on the. On the wood walls and and just driving himself into almost a fever and foaming at the mouth to get out there and kill someone, you know, calm. Calm excellence is what I would say. I didn't. I didn't really go nuts. I tried to encourage others to to do the.
Kelly:
You do hear that, I mean, especially in the pearls or college, and I'm sure even in high school. And I remember talking to some buddies back in high school. It is a different world that if you're not, if you've never played football, just I mean, it is once you're in that game, it's kind of a different world. That's what all my buddies have said. How do you turn that on and off?
Clint:
Well, you you turn it on and off based on. The time on the clock. But it I tell you what it it's. I think we had. The the game would lasted an hour. It felt like 3 hours sometimes, or sometimes it even felt really faster. Execution I mean it. It was sometimes plays, felt like they lasted like an an hour, but they only they were like 30 seconds. But to turn it off and on. I didn't have any special. Routine that I went through other than in the moment, understand where you're at, what you need to execute, and what. You need to do and clarity.
Kelly:
If there is one. Lasting memory, you know? From your football days, what would it be?
Clint:
I didn't hear the question, Kelly, sorry, sorry.
Kelly:
Sorry if if you had like 1 lasting memory and maybe you've already covered, but just like. You know, in your mind's eye, slow MO, you run it at late at night. Is there a a memory that sticks with you to this day?
Clint:
The the one I mentioned in 9th grade it that that pass and then that's the for the championship and then the. The pass in overtime there's the in in the Northwest, you play in the rain a lot. We played Aberdeen and it's just rainy and the defensive end crashing down on me all the time. He's the guy that just located my job. Just that feeling of execution and non execution it. You you still feel today? I still feel the elation of a a TD pass at times. I mean it. There's nothing like it. I mean it's it's like shipping software, you mean? That's what I would equate it to, Kelly. You've shipped software, you've you've done really good work and and shipped and and went to the parties afterwards. That's how you feel when you throw a touchdown.
Kelly:
Keeping it family friendly. Have you ever been in a pile for a fumble?
Clint:
Yeah. Been in a pile for a fumble. I've been grabbed everywhere you can possibly imagine, and it. And I've been bit it at the bottom of the pile.
Kelly:
You're never. You're never going to see a camera or microphone in those piles, even in Pro Football, right?
Clint:
You're never going to see you hear choice words and you are grabbed places you don't really want to tell your mom about.
Kelly:
I remember sitting next to a buddy of mine in in high school math. He was a line offensive lineman. And he just told me. I asked him the same question. I was just curious, you know, and this guy was the most mild mannered guy you could ever imagine and just said Kelly. You don't want to know what goes on in the pile.
Clint:
Well, well, you can't imagine what goes on in the pile. But that plus more.
Kelly:
So quite, quite an interesting thing, Clint, as far as reactions and timing, you know when you're doing all this stuff, I mean a football player, lucky if it lasts 4 seconds and you're making these split decisions have have you had other experiences in life that? Equate to that level of rapidity.
Clint:
You know? Yeah. I mean, remember, you know, last minute changes in software where you know you've got your boss's boss's boss over your back and your you and the tester that are actually testing the feature and search remember search in the address bar and we're going to ship tomorrow. But there's some small change and. Does it work or not? I mean you have to make a decision. Hey, can we do this before you even get to that point? Where? Testing it, you're behind the scene with your boss and your boss's boss. Can we get this done? How are we going to get it done? OK. Yes, we can get it done. And then and then you go execute it and you got basically 2 hours to do it in and you're going to build the product and ship it in a day. So there's been many. Times that we've had to make those type of decisions. I've always been one to say that we can. Get it done. Never been burned by it, but almost.
Kelly:
I do think that especially given that shipping software is kind of an interesting thing, I know we both worked together for a long time because it was actually my boss for a couple of years. But that last minute. Execution is kind of that feeling right before you put the software out there. Always kind of. I'm trying to think of the best word. You you got a lot of hope. You put a lot of work, you put a lot of work and you think you've done everything and it.
Clint:
And then just wait for the feedback.
Kelly:
All of a sudden you just don't know. And there's that. How's it going to be received?
Clint:
Yeah. And that's when you want to play in football. That's the same way. That's exactly that feeling right there, Kelly, that's. How a play feels in football and it's either going to go well or it's not going to go well and. And if it you know. You get to go do it over again each and every time, but when it goes well and you, you hit the home run or your your customers feel great and they give you, you know, pat on the back or a lot of feedback that positive feedback, it feels good.
Kelly:
You know, I do remember. And I. I guess it'd be. The closest thing I can recall to an interception in my software career. I can't remember if we worked together at this time or not going back. When Microsoft was working on Windows XP SP2. That when we had a real security push, I remember I was the tester for a feature in IE called manage add-ons. Not to go too deeply into it, but basically it allowed people to see all of the three kind of different sorts of tools that were running inside their browser, whether those were toolbars, you know, ActiveX controls, other extensions. I remember testing this thing in every way to Sunday because we wanted to make sure that we could detect things and turn them off or on, and we had some crash detection and other stuff. And I remember this. I still remember. I hope. I hope I'm not remembering incorrectly, but because of how these things registered, I do remember there was a toolbar from another company. That we they found a way to allow our technology initially to not manage it. So you couldn't turn it off. And I remember the feeling of. Because they basically. Kind of don't know what the right word is, but they classified it as something else than what it was, and I remember the feeling of being the tester. That how how did this get past me? Why didn't I think of what they could have done? Because I know right after that product shipped, it was one of the first bug fixes we actually had to ship. So, you know, you you pour your blood, sweat and tears into something and. I think that that's always the really interesting thing about software that I think I recall learning when I first, you know, went to Microsoft from being a user. You don't really understand all of that. Effort it takes to build these programs and how many hours you know. OK. Hey, OK. We click on this menu item or we click on this or we press this keyboard hot key, all the energy, effort, discussion, labor that goes into making all this work as fascinating behind the scenes.
Clint:
Yep, absolutely, you know. XP SP2, I think. I think that's probably when you first was on my team. I think that was that IE 6 or or was that?
Kelly:
It would have been past IE six it was like.
Clint:
I ate.
Kelly:
No, it was. It was right before IE 7.
Clint:
OK, 62. You OK? So I came back to IE in IE 7, so you were that was probably a different team.
Kelly:
So the team I had been on, I started at Microsoft on this product called MSN Explorer.
Clint:
Well, we worked there together. We worked there together.
Kelly:
Yeah, it was Microsoft's competitor to AOL. Well then, that team went back into Windows, and for a little while it was called the deluxe team. And then. IE it in the day was kind of in a sustained engineering mode. And then they kind of merged the deluxe team with the. Sustained engineering team. I hope I got all the facts basically right and.
Clint:
That's kind of right, yeah.
Kelly:
Then basically remade an IE team. And the first kind of product that that group worked on was the XP SP2 and then I know I worked on IE for I78. 9 and I think 10.
Clint:
Right. I think you and I worked on MSN. To explore together and then I came back. I went and did photo software in between the IE six when Jim Alch and said no more browser and then it was sustained engineering and then IE seven. I came back right at pretty much the start of IE 7 and then lasted from 7 through 10. I should have left in IE 9.
Kelly:
You know, it's funny, Clint. We talked about that and I think about it and I think you know our the thing that we all gave a lot of ours ours to. Months and more. It's gone.
Clint:
Yeah, by the way, it's. Not only gone, it's uh. You know. I I used Chrome a lot when I actually left Microsoft and and. I really like that I I kind of that's kind of my browser but Edge makes me sick. I kind of squirm when I use that and just the way Microsoft has gotten rid of it, they still think of their customers as users, which is obvious when you use their products. I'm not. I'm not a fan anymore, Kelly. It's not a fan.
Kelly:
Well, in the browsing space, the one good thing I will say is. It is really nice. Obviously I'm interested in accessibility and and how you've worked around that, but especially in the content area of browsers, the fact that Microsoft and Google are contributing right and they're both running off the same chromium stuff that has been such a positive for accessibility. Because right, whether it's screen readers or other assistive technology, they're not having to chase down support as much for multiple browsers.
Clint:
Yeah, I would imagine so because it's all built off 1 chromium engine and then. The the UI. Difference or the customer interface differences but. It it is I. Mean compatibility has come a long ways, right?
Kelly:
I think the whole browsing industry has come a long way. I mean, it's. Yeah, it's got. It's still got its quirks and there's more to do, but. You know. I'm just thinking back to interesting experiences building a web browser. I I think the one that made me chuckle the most. Was there was a day? And I think one of the things that a lot of people don't realize is if you don't work in the software business like, you know, you don't know, this always goes on. But like, we would make a version of the browser basically every day, you know, and even, you know, use all this. And sometimes, you know, multiple branches and versions. But I remember one day I was happily.
Speaker
Yeah. Yep.
Kelly:
Browsing away with my screen reader. And I was one of the first people into work, and everybody else was when they got in, they had a huge problem because something had gone wrong with the the build that day and visually the whole browser was black.
Clint:
Right your screen or your screen reader doesn't give you that information, right?
Kelly:
Right, everything just fine.
Clint:
Read everything just fine.
Kelly:
I just remember that was one of the more interesting things.
Clint:
Yeah. Well, hey, there was a lot of interesting things.
Kelly:
UM. I know we weren't. You've worked in the software business and in other areas as well. I know at one point you worked in a gaming company. What was that like?
Clint:
Oh, gaming company was absolutely a blast because we didn't use anything Microsoft really other than. In terms of tools, right, new tools and learning new new ways to like a lazy and we got to use that for bugs and it was basically when use cases and agile program management and project management was in place. And so I got to learn that and and. And then I owned, we ported software from the casino floor to the iPhone and Android, and I got to learn cell cell developments building for cell phones and the different memory issues with phones and on Android and. IPhone and then we we actually tested the math model behind the slot game. That was very interesting. So the different aspects of and learning new. New tools, new products, new features of of different environments was pretty impressively amazing. I've learned that all in like 3 years and then the one legacy issue I had to deal with was get this old games ran on. Flash and you know the I came on that it was called double down double Down Entertainment, a division of IGT. IGT, Bottom IGT owned, like 60% of all slot games in Vegas, but. It was pretty. It was actually just a fun time because I got to learn new new environments and new tools. And so it's actually pretty fun.
Kelly:
It's wild to think back about some of the things like that ran inside of browsers back in the day. Flash or Microsoft Silverlight and who knows what else.
Clint:
Yeah, Flash was a. Flash was hard to deal with. We we kind of just sunset that thing down and got rid of it all together and just put a new web front end on it.
Kelly:
Want to change the gear with Clinton? I mean, it's really fun walking down memory lane and software, but in the last little bit of time we also, you know, talk a lot about sports. And I know you enjoy sports. Hard to believe the NFL season we just finished Week 6 out of 18 weeks, so we're 1/3 of the way through anything big that interest you or jump out about what you've seen in the first six weeks of the NFL season.
Clint:
You know, a lot of the just the young quarterbacks that are actually, you know, nailing it. And you know, it seems to NFL has changed a lot. It seems like over the last five years, 10 years, five years where you know it's it's a passing, it's a passing environment now and you've got.
Speaker
OK.
Clint:
It's, you know, the the quarterbacks always been probably the one of the predominant, but you got receivers now that are just elevated in terms of presence in the game as much as a quarterback. Just there's some amazing receivers out there. And so I've, I haven't really watched all that much football this year. You started off to talk around your brothers. Your brothers pool that you're or your.
Kelly:
You know.
Clint:
Fantasy fill I I think I won that one time.
Kelly:
You. You. Did man, I invited you to play us in a pick them pick all the games. I trust me, I still hear about that. I invited you to join this league of picking the games every week and you cleaned up. I think you won by a lot. I think you even like.
Clint:
I I yeah, I I skipped a week, remember? I was on vacation. I.
Kelly:
Thank you, miss. That we can still won by like 7 or 8 games.
Clint:
Right. Yeah, I did. It was kind of funny. I I got. I remember you telling me that your brother always gave you. Gave you a crap about that.
Kelly:
You know, yeah. So what's up with the Seahawks out there in Seattle?
Clint:
The Hawks, you know, I've been pretty impressed of. You know, once we got, you know, once the Wilson era was gone and and June Gino's been involved. I mean, I'm pretty been impressed. You know, he's been he was sitting behind the scene and he's. Actually a pretty. Solid quarterback. We got a couple of great runners. But I'm not his Seattle. I'm a kind of a pseudo Seahawk fan. Always have been. My team's the Raiders and I'm trying to, you know. Limp along with them. Especially after the coaches issues they've had and.
Kelly:
The Raider, a a year ago like they thought they were going to be. All that you know, they thought like salvation was coming. They got Devante Adams. They were going to pair him with his old college bug. But Derek Carr?
Clint:
Player issues but. Derek Carr? Yep. Neither did the coach did it. No, I heard he's coming back. He might be an offensive coordinator, right? For the Saints. Ohh, yeah. Pittsburgh. It's Pittsburgh. But All in all, the question you asked, I I think football seems to be changed from a running game to a passing game.
Kelly:
Yeah, something in Pittsburgh, I think I heard.
Clint:
Offensive lineman, big defensive end one or wide receivers and just the wide outs they have in the spread offense. It's just become, I think just last night and I I. I was thinking this myself a little bit, is that it just feels like flag football. I think Brady just mentioned that last night in an article about he said NFL. Refs have gotten so bad it just and it's become a passing offense. It is. It just feels like flag football. I don't feel that way, but I thought it was odd. Listen, reading the headline that Brady said, it just feels like flag football. What do you think?
Kelly:
Well, it's an interesting thing and I wonder, you know, maybe not one or two years, but I do wonder if 10 years from now tackle football will be gone.
Clint:
You can't touch the quarterback. It you see the number of flags this year on the quarterback and they didn't get. Hit that hard.
Kelly:
You know, I think the the challenge here is that teams are spending so much money on the quarterbacks, when even if your salary cap is like whatever it is, I think 220 million when your top flight quarterbacks are taking up 1/4 of that at 50 million or a little bit under 1/4. That guy goes down and you're really hurting.
Clint:
Yeah. Yeah, you're really hurting. I really do like the backup quarter, like a men's shoe. I'm. I'm really. I'm a gardener. Men shoe fan.
Kelly:
So Speaking of Gardner Menchu, what's your whole take on the dispassion of the PAC 12 as a cougar?
Clint:
From a pure. Economic point of view, I think it's crap. I mean, I I I'm not I. Colleges are supposed to be nonprofit institutions. There's a rich tradition on the PAC 12 / 100 year Conference, the Conference of Champions. I I think you've got the the money people that are the the. Athletic directors that just want to go to a conference and all about media and money, it's media and money, media and money. And I realize in a world that's driven off of money and its success supposedly is about money. It just it just hurts deep down to know that there's not going to be a PAC 12. Next year. It's just it. It that's not the world I would really want to live in tell. The truth? It doesn't. I don't know. Pack the Cougs have issues, Oregon State off is going to. Have issues but. I think it's a shame. I think they should be embarrassed, I think.
Kelly:
Yeah. No, I think it's tough. I don't like to. I mean, honestly, I grew up obviously here as a big 10 guy, but it was always. I mean, back in the day again, you know, it was the Rose Bowl was always the. Big 10 in the PAC 10 and that was that was a big part of college football for me. So all these schools out on the West Coast before I lived there, you know, they were as a kid. They were kind of exotic, you know, whether it was Washington or. UCLA or Washington State, or just any of those schools that was, that was exotic to me. And then as I grew up and became an adult, you learn about the PAC 10, you became the PAC 12.
Clint:
U or USC?
Kelly:
I think it's unfortunate that. These conferences have gotten too big. I mean, and we can't even do math. I think it's going to be 18 schools in the Big 10 next year.
Clint:
Isn't that crazy? 18 schools? Well, it's yeah, it's the travel. Like I mentioned, I I think college was supposed to be non profit organizations and their athletic departments are running as if they're a profit center and I.
Kelly:
Well, and they are. I mean, so I and I for me, I'm like, I don't know, man, why should we just separate out college athletics and make it a minor league for these things, you know? But that doesn't really do it for a lot of the other sports. The non revenue sports and. I do worry about, you know, the swim meet in whatever time you're going to. You know, that's way different than the football team coming across country for a game.
Clint:
Right. Volleyball or softball or. Yeah, there's going to be track and field. There's. I just don't know how it's going to. Play out other than. You know the athletic director for the Husky said that he doubts there'll be a there'll be a a Apple Cup in the future.
Kelly:
And I think that those kind of things you know. Especially with some weird we don't have an in state rival with the Badgers here. But I mean, we do have teams that we just played one Iowa and Minnesota are always big games for the Badgers, but whether it's the the big game down with Cal and Stanford or USC and UCLA or the Apple Cup. You know, really got into that when I was living in Washington or the Civil War in Oregon with Oregon and Oregon State. Those are, I don't know. Maybe I sound like you know, the old curmudgeon, but there's something special about those in state rivalries. With growing up in that state and seeing your whichever team you root for playing the other team in your state, and if we lose more and more of that, I mean again, I know what life changes and life evolves and at some point it will be, you know, we'll have these 18 conferences, team conferences and that will be what the. Kids of you know, five years and now grow up knowing and I guess that'll be OK. For people that go through some of these changes, the loss of some of the traditions, it's it's it's kind of sad to me anyway.
Clint:
Yeah, it's kind of sad. It it really is. And I just wish the PAC 12 Sports Channel, PAC 12 channel would have made money for them. I wish it would have been everything they thought it would be. I think they got rooked with the the guy who ran that operation. Not that you could at one time. And at first. Was established. You never could find the PAC 12 channel on any streaming service or any network. You could never find it and.
Kelly:
I know that was Larry Scott, and I think he made very poor.
Clint:
Oh my.
Kelly:
God, I won't. I wasn't in any of the discussions, obviously, so I don't know. I can't say poor, but of if media deals help some of these other conferences, the PAC 12 like.
Clint:
I'll say it.
Kelly:
They they they got an F.
Clint:
Ohh absolutely. They got an F and and the results. This is what the results are.
Kelly:
Right. Yeah. And and it's in that regard, it's. It's unfortunate. Hey, before I let you go, Clinton, we call this an episode. I don't know if you can follow him much because I know you're a cougar, not a Husky, but what's your take on this? Quarterback for the the Huskies. That was quite a game against Oregon this weekend. I don't know if you caught any of that.
Clint:
I watched the whole game. Yeah, solid player, makes great decisions. Say he in terms of tech technical, in terms of how he throws the ball, he's got a lot to work on. I I think he gets the ball batted down quite a bit. It's because he doesn't throw up enough. He did it and give him leverage his height. He throws his kind of sidearm and there's a time and place. Sidearm but.
Speaker 1
He he needs the.
Clint:
Whole throw from the ear, not the like, like a Peyton versus winding up. He waste time, but All in all, he's a pretty solid player and you see the results. I mean, the Huskies are pretty Dang good team. I was pretty impressed with the way Oregon ran the ball. That game. I couldn't believe. It got down there at the end and they they they lost because of the. Missed field goal. I thought that was gonna go into overtime. I think everyone else did too. But to answer your question, Huskies look pretty Dang good.
Kelly:
Yeah, honestly, I watched that whole game and it was one of the one of the better, more entertaining college football games I've seen in a while. I don't. I guess I don't have a big strong rooting interest for either team. I lived in Washington and lived in Oregon. But it.
Clint:
I got a question. The question for it. What do you think of that? Cougar badger game.
Kelly:
Moving row, taking him to a.
Clint:
Yeah, but then the so the Cougars, I think, just disbanded. Their team, after they went four and O. Because the last. Two games I've watched a little bit of. That's not the Cougars I saw. I I don't know what's going on with them. I think the players got wind that he's looking elsewhere probably be the Michigan State coach and and. What not? But I tell you what, the Cougars weren't prepared for the last two games they played. That wasn't the same team that played the Badgers.
Kelly:
No, I mean again I follow, I follow the Cougs a little bit because as you know, I mean I know you're a fan of another guy who's come on the podcast once a buddy of mine, Dan was a coup. So I do follow him and. The wheels have fallen off a bit because they they end up going on in the first four games of the season, and I mean they they just playing handily beat the Badgers, no questions asked.
Clint:
Right. They beat two top 20 teams, Oregon State, Oregon, Oregon State is a great team. That's going to be. A yeah, I think. I think Oregon State plays. USC or someone here soon. But anyway, Oregon, the Oregon State, Oregon game will be good. I think. I think actually that's who they play this week.
Kelly:
Haven't looked ahead to the this weekend's games yet, but I will, yeah.
Clint:
But college balls fun to watch, and I've been pretty impressed with, like Michigan. Their quarterback too. He throws a pretty crisp ball.
Kelly:
Yeah, there's some Michigan. You know, they're they're good. I can't. Can't be too positive about them because. I am a badger, but.
Clint:
Yeah, I get you.
Kelly:
Think the. You know the. The quality of play is probably. I don't know how to evaluate this entirely, but I'll say this you get more. I get more entertainment out of college football than many of the programs Pro Football games, everyone. Sometimes you get a really good pro game, but there's a lot of clunkers and duds too, man.
Clint:
Absolutely no. I get a lot of. There's a lot of and and any for almost each and every conference too, because I watch a you. Know I watch some SEC some ACC. 'S and Big 10 Big 12.
Kelly:
I I guarantee more often than not I can find over the course of a weekend, you know at least two or three, like college games that captivate you.
Clint:
Absolutely, absolutely. And.
Kelly:
You watch a lot of the Pro games and obviously you got your rooting interest, but I mean, especially this weekend, I don't know what happened to the NFL this last weekend. A lot of bad football played.
Clint:
Yes, there was. In a lot of like 15 to 12 games.
Kelly:
But there wasn't a good 15 to 12.
Clint:
Exactly, yeah.
Kelly:
I don't. I mean, if you have, if you have a game that was like really good deep, there's a difference between good, good defense and poorly executed off.
Clint:
Well, and they take the Seahawks. I mean, they scored the first, what, 4-4 minutes of the game and they their offense wasn't even around for the next 3 1/2 quarters.
Kelly:
That's what always blows when you are about pro games, man. You see these teams sometimes that come out first couple drives and they're like a House of wildfire or.
Clint:
Right.
Kelly:
Although this happened in college too, where Colorado goes up 29 to nothing.
Clint:
Ohh 2028 nothing. Yep. Umm.
Kelly:
You know. I guess it's just the nature of. Sports and. It's probably hard sometimes to maintain that momentum when you're really handily taking it to the other opponent.
Clint:
You know, momentum shifts are odd when you're playing a sport. I think it's in football. You, you, you, you. If you feel like you got you do a couple passes and you're you're 2 and all and and you know you hit a couple more and also you have the momentum going to score. The touchdown and then all of a sudden, you know you, you run and you lose 3 yards you or you get 2. You know you missed two. They missed two passes or you miss a throw and the momentum shifts are just amazing, whether that be on regular plays or or special teams. You know, you've seen the special team play where you know. The guy tripped the last time. This time he ran the ball the way down 80 yards for a touchdown. It's crazy. I mean, it's back and forth.
Kelly:
And I I think. I mean, obviously there's some degree of talent difference, but yeah, more and more often than not the talent in most. Games, especially pros. I mean, you don't get that far without having a high degree of talent. But and I've said this when Chris and I have talked several times, I think that you know emotion. Plays a bigger part in sports than we recognize sometimes.
Clint:
Yeah. And then how you control a motion to to accomplish results? I mean absolutely. And you've seen the, the.
Kelly:
You know you can't. You can't get too high when you know, like I'm sure when you when you're throwing an 80 yard bomb and the guys catching and running for a touchdown. I mean, even playing in the in the backyard, you know, when you have that kind of thing you, you know that feeling of. Wow. I'm invincible.
Clint:
Right, right.
Kelly:
But you can't let that go to your head because I mean that's that's when you'll find yourself flat on your back.
Clint:
Yeah, that flattered your back or you throw the pick six that that kind of gets you back down to the reality.
Kelly:
Yeah, yeah. Well, Speaking of reality, Clint, it's been a a real treat to have you come on and chat with me. Good to catch up and have you on the podcast to be named later. We'll have to not have you be a stranger to this.
Clint:
Well, it's been fun, Kelly. I appreciate it. It was, you know, you're asking an old brain to memorize stuff that you know, some, you know.
Kelly:
In the.
Clint:
40 some years ago. So yeah, the software stuff is a. Little more. Current but. It was fun. Kelly, I appreciate you having me and.
Kelly:
Laurie Clint and thanks everyone for listening to another episode of the podcast to be named later.