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Welcome to The Podcast to be Named Later, where we explore the world a conversation at a time.  Sit back and enjoy.  Here are your hosts, Chris and Kelly.

Kelly: 
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the podcast to be named later. My co-host Chris is not with us today but I have a very special and probably the most important guest in my life. My wife Aimee Aimee welcome to the podcast. 
Aimee: 
Thank you Kelly, and thank you for. 
Kelly: 
You're more than welcome. Aimee has extensive experience traveling the globe and I just wanted to bring her on the podcast to chat a little bit about travel. Some of the things that you should think about in learning lessons over time. I think we'll have any back as a guest and delve into some of our specific trips. But to start with Aimee, since I've known you, you've kind of traveled for probably at least a year all over the globe. I think when we added it up, it's 5 continents, 30 countries, loads of different experiences. What do you? Think gave you that travel? 
Aimee: 
First of all, I want to clarify for the listeners that I don't consider myself to be some ******** traveler. I don't have crazy intrepid stories, but I have had a lot of experience with different types of travel, travel from traveling independently to being with a small group to being with a little bit bigger group to. You know you and I traveling together. And for your question about what gave me the travel bug, I cannot think of a specific instance, but I am someone who's curious about life in the world. I love history. I love art. I love good food and traveling around and seeing things for yourself and experiencing. Different places with all of your senses is so much richer than going than watching a TV show or a documentary. Not that I think that's a bad thing, if that's that sometimes can stimulate interest. And if you're not, if you don't have. If you're not comfortable with going outside your comfort zone yet, it's a good start, but I think you'll agree with me that being at a place and experiencing it is very different than watching it. Like for example, the football game, you can have the same game, but you would have a very different experience if you were there in person versus if you were. In your living room watch. Looking at. 
Kelly: 
That's most definitely true. A football game itself tends to be pretty loud and chaotic in person and not quite so much at home. Depending on when you're watching this. That said, I was thinking about that comment when I said loud and chaotic and it reminded me of an interesting experience. The first time we went to India and stepped outside the hotel, I think my first experience the way I would describe it was loud and chaotic, but after you got used to it and understood it, it was amazing and how it all kind of still worked. So I think there is something about travel where as you gain familiarity you understand it more. 
Aimee: 
I think there's something to be said for that, and you are right that India is a country that you really cannot be a passive observer. I remember us stepping outside that hotel after we woke up from that late night flight coming in and walked outside the gates and it was loud and chaotic and people were coming right up to you and there's just masses of people. This was the first time. Time either of us had been in Asia, and as I said, it can be intense. India is a wonderful country, but it definitely is, can be chaotic and especially if you're jet lagged and not feeling 100% it, it really is overwhelming. 
Kelly: 
I think the other thing is that a lot of times it's a perspective because I'm sure the people that are from there that everything that we would describe as loud and chaotic they might. Call more, that's just how life is, and they're like how can you be here when. It's so quiet and calm. 
Aimee: 
I think that for some cultures, the Western culture really comes across as sterile and not very colorful. 
Kelly: 
So India is one place and that trip was based off of, you know I need to go out due to an invitation to a wedding. How do you kind of pick the places you're going to go and what are some of the things you think about as far? Because whether it's a good time or place to go at any given. 
Aimee: 
Moment sometimes what captures my imagination might be watching a movie or seeing a picture of a place or reading about it in a book and saying, wow, this really seems pretty cool. I'd like to go and see that and experience that for myself. So as far as picking where to go, I always have a a bucket list if you will, and that can. That's a pretty fluid. List if you will, but in thinking about where to go, consider the time of year you know are there. Are there festivals or other things going on that might be interesting to check out? Or conversely, might make travel a little bit more difficult? What is the budget? How much time do I have? And that helps to set a formation foundation for picking a place for where to go. Also, airline prices, especially these days where they're pretty crazy. 
Kelly: 
The travel is there's a lot that goes into it, but I I certainly won't call myself any sort of expert. But I remember probably my most important learning experience was the first trip. That we took. To England and packing appropriately in matters. We got off the plane. With a friend, what I called the friend of a huge suitcase that we thought we had the world by the horns. In we affectionately called Big Wheelie. But, and we're like, oh, you know we'll put all of our stuff in one suitcase, make it. Easier exactly. 
Aimee: 
We thought that we were doing a smart thing by condensing all our stuff. I I don't think either of us over packed per say, but we didn't really understand that that big suitcase wasn't going to fit very well in small elevators. And when you cart it up flights of stairs in the European hotel. When you're on the train and of course you know big luggage screams American. 
Kelly: 
There's nothing quite like. Dragging a big suitcase around the streets of London for probably a 45 minute walk to a hotel. I've definitely learned since then, no matter what the trip is, pack small and I think talk a little bit more about that. I mean like what are you doing right? You don't. What are you you know? Is there like a kind of a number of things you should think about or? 
Aimee: 
Yeah, I we've definitely come a long way since big wheelie to be. Sure, for me I like to pack us. I mean, it's always a balance between gauging what are your activities you're going to be doing, and having just enough things. Also, how often you're going to be able. To do laundry. So thinking about that, I prefer taking my things in a carry-on, particularly a soft carry-on, where I can use it as a backpack that's not for everyone. You can also have a small wheelie bag if that's more your style. Well, but for me I I like to carry my things and I try to generally with some adaptations depending on said activities, temperature variations and such. I try to follow more or less the rule of three, so 3 tops 3 bottoms, no more than three pairs of shoes. And such. 
Kelly: 
So there's a lot that goes in to travel. As I've said a couple of times, so you get yourself packed and your you know where you're going and you know. And taking around a big old suitcase and you got the right amounts to what are the things that you think about or look for as far as where to stay. To kind of try and have an authentic experience, but maybe not too authentic. In some cases where. You're experiencing some of the rougher parts of things, but also not breaking the bank in a five star hotel. 
Aimee: 
So where I would stay where I start with is I look at some online resources because there's a lot of hot garbage out on the Internet. I think it's important to look at different sources and just get a good picture, so I may you can look at things like TripAdvisor and such and that will give you that will. That's usually updated. So if a place closes and such, you won't bother to. Work there, but I also look at social media sites for well seasoned travelers who have who have good reputations and are credible, such as women on the road or nomadic mat. They may have some information. There are also online you can go to social media sites. Like solo travelers, Lonely Planet has an online has social media. They used to have the thorn tree that's been. Discontinued, but they've transitioned to Facebook. Probably some other social media sites that you can ask questions or enter information into search engines and get some more up to date information on places to stay as far as deciding what sort of cultural activities. And so. I tend to look at some guidebooks for information for that, and again, when you're doing research for a trip, it's important to get different perspective so that you can get a clearer picture. At least, that's that's how I roll if you will. Ah, good guide book for me is someone who has been in the country. And is very familiar with it. For example, I haven't been to Mozambique yet, but the Brat Guide has is written Co. Written by Hilary Bratt, who is the co-founder of The Brat Guide. And she's gone back and forth to Mozambique for decades. And obviously he's very familiar with it as opposed to someone who might be assigned to go to a region for a few months or maybe a year traveling on the road to find some of the best places. And there have been some rumblings in the past that some of the guidebook. Some guidebook writers I'm not going to say which guidebooks, but they may get kickbacks or accept. Other sorts of bribes or free items to plug certain places and you'll see that sometimes on some Instagram influencers. Some influencers might have some information that's useful, but if they're getting their. If they're being paid for their promotion, have some caution with that. 
Kelly: 
So going around the country. There's a lot of different ways you. Can do it. You can plan it yourself. You can be 60 people on the bus. Get out for an hour, take your pictures, walk around, get back on the bus. You can use different tour companies. What are what are your experiences and what do? You like to do and why? 
Aimee: 
It depends on where I go. I'll I'm finding more and more as I've gained confidence as a solo and independent traveler that I like to arrange things by myself. Sometimes I mix it up. Like for example. I may take, you can take there's no harm in taking a day tour with with a company and having a guide a good guide. A local guide can really open up a place to you can show you more local life and introduce you to. An aspect of what the locals experience that you would not have if you tried it by yourself, but we've all. I've also had experiences where the local guide just tries to shuffle you through and doesn't really offer anything that's meaningful. So how I pick again, you know, and at some point there's a judgment call. But looking at different at the reputation of the different companies, what the what some of the reviews have to say. And you know, again, looking at different sources that have had this experience with a certain company. We'll give you some information as to whether this may be credible or not. Now I have traveled. I've traveled independently like to places by myself, where I arranged everything myself. I've also gone on small group tours, such as with Intrepid. I've had great experiences with them. And I've I've gone with with some other companies that sometimes have had good and sometimes not as good of an experience with. I've never been on one of those big bus tours where you've got the stereotypical snapping cameras. I've also done an overland tour, which is probably the loosest. Def loosest way to have a a tour where you've got a group of people basically on a truck and you're trucking through areas of a country that are more remote. And it's and it's where it can be more or less like a hop on hop off. So if you're if you're not comfortable going to a place by yourself, or if the logistics of going to a place solo and planning it yourself won't work either because you don't have time, or because there's not the infrastructure. For in the country that supports. Then you might find that going with a smaller group or something might work for you, and in my view we can laugh at the big bus thing. But the to me, I think that what's most important is if you get out your comfort zone and you're willing to travel that that, I think, means a lot. 
Kelly: 
So we've kind of done a lot of chatting Aimee about. You know how you get there, what you should take? I'd like to think whether you know so now you're kind of all packed up and you have had many places to go. The most recent was Ecuador, why Ecuador? 
Aimee: 
What I liked about Ecuador is it offers a wide range of cultural. Natural and artistic diversity in such a small area. Also, I've while I've traveled a bit through Asia a little and Africa and Europe. And of course, North America. I really hadn't had the opportunity to go to South America, so I thought this would be a good introduction to that continent. 
Kelly: 
You told me that Ecuador is a kind of a. Land of different. Regions and things go with that a little bit. 
Aimee: 
So Ecuador is supposedly it's said to be comprised of four worlds, the coast, the Galapagos, the Amazon and the mountain range. The Glapa ogos tends to be the most well traveled in Ecuador, but I was most interested this in this go round. In looking at some of the sites and experiences that were in the Ecuadorian Andes. 
Kelly: 
What were some of those sites that you experience? 
Aimee: 
Well, I I did all sorts of stuff so I had a spiritual cleansing in by a shaman while I was there and actually got to tour a couple indigenous communities I I went to the large Saturday market in Otavalo which is. South America's largest textile market. I got to go to ethnobotanical gardens. I had chocolate tastings. Fun fact. 60% of the world's highest grade cacao pods come from Ecuador. Aye OK. 
Kelly: 
So talk a little. I mean, let's delve into a few of those spiritual cleansing. What was that all about or what what happened there? 
Aimee: 
I went to Otavalo for a weekend and I was interested in connecting with learning some a little bit about the indigenous ways of life of some indigenous communities. So I took a a day tour with a with a company that's run by an indigenous community and I had the opportunity to meet a shaman. At his place and we went we. It's held this the ceremony is held at a sacred spring. It it starts off with they burn Palo Santo and some other woods and using the elements of Earth, wind, fire and water. Essentially the ceremony cleanses you of bad juju. 
Kelly: 
What happens in the ceremony itself? 
Aimee: 
So initially a fire is lit in a bowl and at North SE and West Cardinal points there are herbal bouquets because there were four of us who were getting there are three of us actually who got the no. Four of us who got the. Spiritual cleansing sorry. So after initially the fire is set and the shaman does an incantation in this particular, this particular shaman combines elements of indigenous religion with some Catholicism, but not all indigenous communities. Do that. But this one did and then so he spoke in a in a combination of kicha and Spanish. And then we went to the sacred spring you you stand in it you're you change into a bathing suit. Water is poured on you. He spits he. He ingests and spits his herbal liquid at you, and people might think, Oh well, that sounds really bad. But spit is not always a bad thing. It can be a benediction in some cultures and and that's using the. Air and water. The cleanse. So and then the shaman also touches you with the herbal bouquets from the head to the feet. To help clean out any bad energies and you are positioned slowly, you know North SE and West. 
Kelly: 
To talk about another thing that you said and you talked about the chocolate from Ecuador. Having been a beneficiary of being able to taste some of what you brought back, did you tour parts of where they make chocolate? Or what do you see there about that? 
Aimee: 
I didn't get to go to the one chocolate farm. I would have liked to have seen which is by the Amazon. Maybe that's another trip, but I did get to go in Mindo. There is a place they have. They had some cacao. Trees on their property, so I did get and they and they could. They did process cacao there, so I did get to see what happens from being to bar and that was very interesting. 
Kelly: 
So it's interesting to me about chocolate. Is the transformation, transformation and taste from being to bar. I know at different places we've had the chance to. Try the cacao beans all the way up to the chocolate and. Wow, what a difference. Makes you wonder you know what? What in history happened to cause people to figure out they could get such a sweet taste out of. It's a pretty intensely non sweet taste at the start. 
Aimee: 
Exactly, I mean, and you could wonder that for coffee or for vanilla even. 
Kelly: 
You definitely could. What time? What was some of the interesting plant life or nature birds or other kind of things that you saw that maybe were different from good old wintery as it is today, Wisconsin that stick out? Your mind from going to Ecuador. 
Aimee: 
I'm not a huge birder, but I certainly appreciate birdsong. I did go to Mindo which is about two 2 1/2 hours northwest of Keto in the Cloud forest in a cloud forest is. Place where mountains where the mountain, air and the and the coastal air meet. And then it because of the precipitation. The mountains are very lush and so that attracts a lot of bird life. And it it's consequently a huge area for different birds. And like I said, I'm I'm not a bird or so. If you asked me which to name which bird that was. I'm like no. But I saw lots of very colorful birds. And of course, of course, for the bird song, there's a plethora of butterflies there, but for me what I liked most as far as the plant life is, I I love orchids and. I got I got to stay at a place in Mendo where they had hundreds of different kinds of orchids. Some that were as big as my thumbnail. And I also toured a another Botanical Garden where I got to see orchids, and that was really neat. I mentioned earlier that I had an opportunity to tour an ethnobotanical garden at in an indigenous community and it was interesting to learn. I mean, some of the plants that they have are ones that are familiar to us. But it's also interesting to think about how they use some of the different parts of the plants that we wouldn't think of. For example, certain varieties of figs have leaves that are used. In preparations that help women who are pregnant. 
Kelly: 
Interesting, I know. Work as you said, some you know the size of your thumbnail. It's pretty small. Were there some that were? What we might consider from orchids, you know that we traditionally encounter abnormally large that you. 
Aimee: 
Experienced, didn't see any really large orchids, but the tiny ones were interesting, but you know they're all beautiful ones in different colors. A few of the varieties that you might see in stores like Dendrobium that are very popular or the kitaya, but there are many other varieties that you don't typically see in bridal bouquets or anywhere here in the US. 
Kelly: 
One of the things they knew that I I recall in getting ready for Ecuador was something I would have never thought of about going to some countries, checking to be sure about the rules around what you can bring in as far as electronics and. You know that I think it was. You can only bring in like 2 phone type devices, one on only one of which can be new. I might have the precise details wrong, but I found that kind of interesting. Something I wouldn't have thought about checking. 
Aimee: 
Exactly that was interesting. I happen to come across that when I was reading an ex Pats. Blog that they talked about some of the restrictions and so when I went and looked at the entry requirements for Ecuador there they are pretty strict on how much technology you can bring. Now I only brought my one phone. Well actually I brought a backup phone. But you know, you can. I think you can only take one laptop and a couple of phones. So if you're someone who needs a lot of technology. I assume you'd probably have to apply for a permit or something for that, so that was interesting. And again, I think it's always a good idea to take a look at what what are. Are there any entry requirements to the country that you should be aware of so that you don't bring something inappropriate or illegal? 
Kelly: 
It's been a couple months since you've come back from Ecuador now is there and there might be more than one, but are there things that really you know are starting to emerge as standouts in your memory as you reflect on the experience? 
Aimee: 
Of course, the shaman cleansing was very interesting. I I enjoyed that day very much. I also enjoyed seeing Cuenca. They they have a gorgeous cathedral that is a UNESCO World Heritage site. I got to meet some people, some German, a German couple who's about our age when I was travelling South and that was and I really appreciated getting to know other people and that's so it's it's always nice to be able to sometimes interact with other travelers. 
Kelly: 
Can you talk a little bit more about the cathedral? 
Aimee: 
About that cathedral. Well the it's beautiful on the outside these beautiful domes that are white and blue. That kind of like the Madonna's robe. If you will, the inside was not as spectacular. The most spectacular I mean. If you want. To go to a place where there are lots of cathedrals. Go to Quito. I forget how many cathedrals they have, like dozens, like dozens, but one of the most interesting ones I saw was la come La Compania la Compania de Jesus that is so much gold leaf inside. It's just breathtaking. But you look at that and you also think about what it, who put who constructed this cathedral back in the 1500s, and where did they get this gold and how you know who suffered for that. So while you can admire that kind of beauty. You also think about some of the. You know colonial roots of that, and you know who benefited and who suffered for that. 
Kelly: 
Like anything, you know, life is also learning. Are there things that you would do differently the next time you if you go back to Ecuador, things that you thought you know were kind of really key to do that once you. Then even like that that didn't need to be on the itinerary. 
Aimee: 
OK, so that's those are two different questions for oh, so must sees if you go to Ecuador and again I only saw one of the four regions, so. I'm if I go back, I would probably see a different region. But if you're going to go see the mountains of equity in the mountain region of Ecuador, of course spend a couple days in keto. I would recommend going to see the Quilotoa Crater Lake, which is beautiful, vibrant blue. Cotopaxi National Park, where you can see the volcano. Banyos is the center of adventures and in fact I went whitewater rafting there it was the first time I'd ever done that, which was an interesting experience. 
Kelly: 
What was that like? 
Aimee: 
Well, I mean I was. I was the oldest person there, but you, they coach you. It's a Class 3 Rapids before you get into the the raft they coach you on. You know how you raft together? You know how you decide to you know. Hello, use your words Aimee that you're great. You know that you know who's going to be leading people to tell you where to direct your paddle. And then what word to use when you need to get it when there's someone at the back who sees where the Rapids are? And if you have to jump in. Into the raft and hang on to the rope, because when you're rafting on the river you sit on the side of this inflatable raft. And you paddle. And so that was. And at one point we got out of the raft and swam in the river. And that was neat too. So it was a great experience, but it it's also an experience that, OK, I've done it and it'd be fun to do it again, but if I don't do it again ever, I'm at peace with that. 
Kelly: 
You're going down the river. Did you tip over at all or? 
Aimee: 
Anything, no, I mean I was bound and determined I was not going to tip over, so I pretty much you have like you're. You're seated kind of in an angle when you're in the right. When you're on the raft paddling. But I always kind of I shifted. Myself a little bit so that I could get in a little faster if we had to jump in. 
Kelly: 
So it sounds like cobral Ecuador. And I know you enjoy it. 
Aimee: 
I didn't get the chance to answer the other question. Can I do that quick? 
Kelly: 
Yes, my apologies. 
Aimee: 
Oh no, no worries so. So those are. Those are parts that I think that people should not miss if they're going to go to the mountainous region. I thought you know allow see was they don't have a train that runs through there anymore, but it's a pretty place to spend a a couple of days. So the second question that you had asked was what are the things I would do differently? And there's always learning experiences when you travel. In Ecuador, cash is king. You can pay for hotel stays and stuff in some of the touristy areas with your credit card and such, but generally cash is the way to go, so make sure you have enough cash with. I went to Mindo and I discovered and while I had some cash you know to get me through a couple of days for activities and such like that I discovered that the hotel I was staying at, they accepted credit cards, but there were extra fees. If you use credit cards and some of that was probably their personal. Policies, but some of that may have also been the regional policies. So that ended and and the Mando does not have a functioning ATM. So you would have to take a cat to like a town 25 kilometers away. And so that was that kind of put a damper on. Some things cause then I was really conscientious about, you know, watching my cash and such like that. And Mendo is like I said, it's it's a beautiful place. It's got a lot of biodiversity. I think it's really a a fabulous place if you. Are with if you like birding. I did find that it was generally more expensive than some of the other touristy areas, so. That was something that I noticed. I ended up staying there four nights and I could have made the choice to stop and have it for three, but I decided to stick it out. And you know that was that, that's OK. But if I were to plan knowing what I know now, I would have spent. A day less in mindo and probably spent an extra day or two in Otavalo. 
Kelly: 
You mentioned something that I hadn't heard before. The name of the place Crater Lake. So I'm really curious because we've been to both of them. Crater Lake. How does the two compare like what do they? What does this one look like compared to the Oregon? Are they? I remember a lot of people in Oregon commented about how blue that lake was too. What are what are those like? 
Aimee: 
So I actually went to two crater lakes in Ecuador. I went to Lake Quicho, which means Guinea pig. Lake and I went to kiloton. The the different the colors of course can depend on, you know lighting and stuff like that, but the Crater Lake in Oregon tends to be a darker, more vivid blue the and so there's some different minerals in that lake than there are in quilotoa, which has more of a blue-green. Color the Crater Lake in Oregon also has that distinctive island in the middle that they call Wizard Island, so it looks like a like a mini volcano. And they have islands in Lake Ricochet as well as I think there's one in Kylotonn, but they don't have that distinctive look to it, so they're all. They're all very interesting. They're they're they. They each are unique. They don't look just like alike. 
Kelly: 
Ecuador was a pretty well-rounded trip and. What what's next on the list? 
Aimee: 
I'd like to go to North Africa, but I also. Want to go some other places? I always you know like like I said it depends on when I'm available. Depends on what's going on in the world budget and such like that so stay tuned. 
Kelly: 
Well, thanks so much Jamie for coming on the podcast to me later and entertaining me all my curiosity and questions multiple times. 
Aimee: 
Well, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. I love travel as you know and I like talking about it and hopefully people who are listening enjoyed it too.