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Welcome to The Podcast to be Named Later, where we explore the world a conversation at a time.  Sit back and enjoy.  Here are your hosts, Chris and Kelly.

Kelly: 
Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the podcast to be named later. I've got my co-host Chris and we have a special guest for part of the podcast keeping in the family. We have a niece of mine and a cousin to Christopher Misty welcome Misty and Chris. 
Misty: 
Thank you, how are you? 
Kelly: 
I'm good Chris, how about you? 
Chris: 
Doing great buddy. 
Kelly: 
Great Misty came and has had some life experiences that we just wanted to share. We're not offering medical advice and everybody has a different journey in life, but Misty has some interesting stories and perspective to share and thought would be interesting. For others to hear a little bit about her story. Misty when you were 19, you're now 43 so 24 years ago. So you've been living the typical life, just finished up high school in Southern California. And then you've got some medical news. Do you want to start telling us a little bit about your journey? 
Misty: 
Sure, sure, so uh, my was 19 and. I just kind of out of nowhere. I mean, there's there's. A little back story I. Had on, uh, usually dark stool and that set the whole thing off to where I went to the doctor and they did some labs and within two days I was at work. And my step mom was there and she said get in the car. We have to go to the hospital now and I naturally thought something was wrong with someone else or my dad. And and she said it's you and I was like whoa hold on so. Long story short, there after a week in the hospital I was diagnosed with autoimmune hepatitis. Which means that I have hepatitis simply means that your liver is inflamed. It doesn't work. Right and. I had not been a drinker. I was only 19 and. Autoimmune means that my own body sees my liver as a foreign object and thus has been, you know, mounting attacks against it for. Who knows how long? By age 19 I had full blown cirrhosis. 
Kelly: 
So again, you're told you have to go to the hospital. So and 1st you think it's you know somebody else and you find out it too. What what was? Going through your mind when you first hear this news. 
Misty: 
I was really confused, I think although. After after the Dark stool I. Noticed symptoms outside of that like I was having trouble I had. A lot of fatigue. And I noticed that like I remember distinctly going to the mall with my friends and having getting winded, just walking the distance of the mall and having to slow down and take a break and it. Was really unusual because. I mean, up until this point I'd been just. A normal kid. So I I think I was. I was confused but kind of was like oh OK, so I need some kind of medication or something and I. Just figured it was going to be. You know, in and out they'll fix it, and I'm done. 
Kelly: 
I want to Fast forward misty 24 years, and then we'll circle back, but. Where are you today? 
Misty: 
Today I am. I mean, you know, I can't ever really say healthy. I'm relatively healthy. I'm stable. I have 2 children. I work, a part time job and I do. Just about Everything that I would like to do I mean. I have some some restrictions and that, uh, a common symptom of liver disease is just fatigue. So I get really tired, really easily. The I I can like if we were to go to amusement park, I could walk around and do that all day. It would just be exhausting. 
Kelly: 
So from 19 to 43 there, there's been quite a journey and you told me that once a week, even today you have to go have fluid removed, correct? And how, how much fluid is that a week? 
Misty: 
It can vary quite a lot. It kind of goes in spurts to where it's not not too much, but then it just kind of it. It changes what I have noticed for myself. Over the years it. It is it kind of tends to hover in a certain. Range as far as the amount and it stays there for a while and then it starts to fluctuate and. It changes so. They last several. It's called a paracentesis. The procedure the last several I've had. They've removed about like an average of 3 liters. Of fluid. From my abdomen. 
Kelly: 
So that's a lot. 
Misty: 
It is. 
Kelly: 
A long that must add a lot your weight just. I mean, liquids are water, I think is £8 a gallon. 
Misty: 
Yep, Yep, it's it is heavy. It has caused Me 2 umbilical hernias. Well, three, I've had two repairs. I have 1/3. And I name them because you know, then I have somewhere to direct my frustration, I guess. Uhm, but it's it's heavy and it it really makes it difficult to breathe is really my biggest thing and then also, of course, vanity. 
Kelly: 
So going back. When you first were diagnosed and you started to explore things. At one point in this journey, liver transplants were explored for you, correct? 
Misty: 
Yep, Yep, that was. When it would have been around. 2012 And I I was the process started and I was taken off the active list. In about 2015 or 16. 
Kelly: 
So tell us a little bit more about that process of getting on a transplant list just from your perspective, how it works, what you learned, and just what kind of went through your mind. 
Misty: 
It's rigorous. Uhm, so there's a lot of different specialists that you have to see. They do, you know you have to have your blood work done. They do ultrasounds. They do CT. Scans you have to meet with a dietician. You have to meet with. A psychologist and of course your hepatologist your liver doctor as well as surgeons. They all you know. Do their tests they ask. Their questions, they do their things and the things they're looking for is, are you a viable candidate? How complicated of a surgery is going to be? Obviously it's complicated to begin with, but what makes your case unique or different than others? Uhm, do you have a very good solid support system? Because you will need. Do you know good about good nutrition? Are you? Do you understand that you will have to take medication for the rest of your life? You know those types of things and then they meet you guys you meet and they as you know. Talk to you about. What they found and all these things and then. The biggest factor in putting you on the transplant list is what is called your MELD score, and that stands for them. It's very encouraging the model for end. Stage liver disease score. And and so the scale for that ranges from 6. To 40. Six is you're doing fine. Yeah, your liver isn't working correctly, but you're functioning well. 40 is you need a transplant in the next week or you're probably not going to make it. And so once they've compiled all this information, they take your MELD score and they submit it to, you know, switches. It's it's the body who decides where organs go. Based on your score, you're put on a list, and one interesting thing I learned through that whole process is there's not one list there is actually in the United States there is 6. And so it goes by region. And so essentially it's like whoever has the highest score gets the liver that's available, provided it's a good match. And to be honest, the matching process is not as difficult as people think. For a liver. Really, my blood type is a negative. I can I can accept an organ from anyone who has any, A or. O blood type. So that was that was surprising to me and. And then to maintain your active status on the. List there's follow-ups. That have to be done based on your MELD score. You have to have labs done periodically and it changes depending on your score. You have to have ultrasounds and CT scans done periodically to maintain your status on the list. 
Kelly: 
Do you know when you were on the list how close to getting a transplant you ever were at, like the closest? 
Misty: 
Yeah, I was next. 
Kelly: 
And what happened that you? Why did what happened? 
Misty: 
Right, so my story is also a little more. Complicated because I. During this part of my life where I had the. Worst symptoms and the worst issues due to this hepatitis we moved. I lived in Colorado and then we moved to Wisconsin and the reason we moved is because I couldn't take care of my kids. I needed help. But in the process then there was some confusion and some mix up. And what was happening is my meld was relatively low, but I was having a lot of other symptoms that were more emergent than my meld reflected. And when you have a patient in that situation, your doctors can petition the Yunos board and ask, can you give exception? Points because this lab score is not accurate to how this patient is functioning. And so I was getting a fair amount of exception points and I was to the point where my doctor called me and said. Do you have your arrangements in place? Because the next liver that comes in and it's a match with yours and I said yes. Yeah, then, unbeknownst to me, they kind of put me on hold. And reviewed my case and came back to me a little while later and said. You know it is not going to give us the exception points anymore, because you're. Too healthy. Which is a. Good problem to have. And uhm. In that moment. I had like a mixture of like. Disappointment and fear. And relief. Because I wasn't convinced that I was ready so. It was a really strange experience, but. That is, that's. What transpired once I was in that position on the list? And that is not. The case for everybody. 
Kelly: 
So just want to follow up on a couple. Of things there. You said that you weren't able to take care of your kids was it. The fatigue and such or without going into too many details but what? What kind of circumstances. Did you find yourself in that meant you couldn't take care of your kids? 
Misty: 
I would say the biggest issue was the fatigue. Also, the system the health systems are very different from where we live to where we live now and we have a really good program here where I can go get that fluid drained off every week, but it wasn't the same in Colorado and so I was functioning most of the time with a lot of fluid and. As exhausting, so that was a struggle. And on top of that I had a great deal of pain, but not it wasn't internal pain. It was because of the weight because of the fatigue and because you know, just trying to like power through everything and live my life as normally as possible. My body was just. Tired and hurting and. And there was a really long period where. I you know, I had my second child and. I I didn't know that you could. 
Misty: 
Retain this fluid, and so for a long time I just thought it was baby weight. Well then I realized no, this is something different and they told me and I started getting it taken off, but it would accumulate again and then I'm right back where I started and somewhere in the midst of that also. Uhm, that fluid. It's called a spontaneous. Bacterial peritoneal infection. That fluid became infected somehow. Which was really probably I've had two natural child births and I think that pain was still worse. So I just had a lot of. A lot of ongoing symptoms that were causing. That you were just making things really hard and then when you have like a 6 year old and a brand new baby it's it's a lot. It's a lot. 
Kelly: 
So something you said to me is striking and I'm curious if you have a perspective on this. You were diagnosed with this situation when you were 19. Had at least one child, if not not two, and it sounds like no one told you that you could accumulate this fluid. 
Misty: 
Uhm, no. No, I I so my first pregnancy went off without a hitch. I mean relatively speaking. I mean it. 
Misty: 
Given my circumstances, my first pregnancy was great. My second one is where things got haywire and, uhm, you know. I mean, I started gaining weight and feeling bloated. But I just. I mean that you hear pregnant women going through that all the time, so I didn't really think much of it and it was about four weeks after my son was born when I wasn't losing the fluid that I went to my hepatologist, I said something is wrong and he took one look at me and he said, yeah, let's get that drained. 
Kelly: 
What was what was your immediate reaction? 
Misty: 
I said you can do that. And he said. Yeah, I said please let's do that. 
Kelly: 
So this kind of leads to another area that I'm curious about. Your philosophy and perspective, and again, there's all sorts of. You know beliefs and medical information and one size doesn't fit all but. It sounds like in some ways you certainly weren't given all the information you should have been early on. Has that or other areas caused you to explore. There are more than just what we would think of here as traditional Western Medicine. 
Misty: 
100%, however, it wasn't the incident about the fluid because I actually I don't know how. I never learned that because long before that ever happened I I spent. I I I spent a. Lot of hours researching and learning. What I could about Uh my health how to maintain health about your liver function and how it works, and what it does and things you can do to improve your overall health as well as you know keep your body functioning well and and the the catalyst for that was. Ironically, it was after my first son was born I. Was in the. Hospital not unrelated to his birth and dumb. I was 26 and because we lived away from family. My husband was not with me. I was at the hospital alone and they did an ultrasound and I had a doctor very casually come into the room and say to me come so we got your ultrasound results with everything you know it looks pretty good. But there's just this one spot. It's probably cancer, but we're going to do a biopsy just to make sure. And then he just. Kind of laughed. And I was like, what did you just say to me? Are you what I was terrified? I'm like I'm 26 and I don't. I was freaking. Out so so. 
Kelly: 
The doctor basically walked in the room, gave you in some ways not to be overly dramatic, but a potential death sentence and left. 
Misty: 
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it clicked during that hospital stay 'cause there was another incident that. Happened too, that it. Was like hold on hold on if I really want to take care of myself and I really want to maximize my life. It's on me. 100%. It's on me and so I just dove in head first and I started reading and the Internet was. I mean it was around. It wasn't as good. Of a resource as. It is as it is now, but I was using that and. I learned a lot about. Uhm, alternative methods and alternative things you can do and probably like my most. The thing that I think has had the biggest impact is. Diet and I will say like. I don't. I don't eat a perfect diet. I definitely don't. I don't. Eat hurt very much processed food. 'cause I really. Truly think that that was a contributing factor to how I ended up where I am in the first place. And there is. There's like no nutrient value for your body in there. And So what am I really gaining by eating this nothing? And in fact I'm making my liver. Work harder because it's also full of a bunch of chemicals that don't occur in natural foods. So that's where I. Focused a lot of my energy. But naturally, in that research I also learned about other types of treatments. I have seen a holistic Dr. I use chiropractic regularly. I use essential oils daily and. And I try to I try to do. What works for? Me and I can't tell anybody else what works for them, but uh, and I know I need Western medicine. It's not always my first choice, and I asked a lot a lot of questions. Because I want to understand what is happening. Why do you think I need this medicine? What are my treatment options? Because I have. I feel like I have enough knowledge that if you can explain to me where the dysfunction is. I can also try some things that I know and maybe not be on such a heavy dose of medicine or be on it at all and come. So that's really shaped where my philosophy, as far as how to truly take care of. My health. 
Kelly: 
What are some of the skills or I guess protection mechanisms you put in place? When you're searching, you said the Internet well, as we all know the Internet. Kind of the wild frontier. When you're searching for this information, what are some just one of some of those skills that you've developed over the years to? Figure out even then you know which things are reasonable and which are fly by night scam or whatever other term you want to use. That should be. Avoided, how do you? How do you balance that? I need other knowledge sources, but with they still need to be credible. How do what are the skills that you've developed? 
Misty: 
Sure, that's a great question. I have some reliable sources that I've used. You know? You know repeatedly over time, and I think one thing that I've done too is. You know it's funny. You can look in medical journals and things like that and you can read about testing and things that were done with unconventional medicines and the results and they can. Even be really good results, but they don't. They don't use them and so. I learned a lot about liver function. I learned a lot about the problems that hepatitis causes. I learned a lot about. Ways to. Ways to detoxify your body naturally and things like that through some somewhat in medical journals also come. Like I said, I had some. I had some books that I I depended on. I I really there was a great book called Gum. Oh, it's a cookbook, but it was a fantastic book and it it talked in depth about how. Our foods that we have that we go to the market and buy today are not nearly the same. Even a very like a fresh apple is not the same as the apple that my grandparents ate or their parents ate because we've depleted our soil of nutrients so much so that cookbook was a great resource because not only did it have recipes It gave me the background information to understand. Why this? How it could help me and how to treat it and also what to look for when I buy food. You know, people say food is medicine and I totally buy into that. So that cookbook was one great resource. And by and large. I'll be honest. People would probably. Think that some of the resources I used were snake oil and things like that because it's unconventional. But I always would. Look at the credentials of UM. You know the person who wrote the book or the person running the website or writing the article you know, and that would tell me a lot. And and then also I kind of. I rely on my gut. 
Kelly: 
Since you've been involved in this arena and health situation for. You know almost a quarter of a century. Do you feel that the medical profession and the way that they understand the issue or provide patient care or look at? Other approaches, have you seen changes in that over that period of time? 
Misty: 
Without a doubt I have, UM. You know it's in in. A lot of ways. Doctors, they they do want to do their best, but. I think in the past. Doctors were very used to come. I'm going to tell a patient to do this, and they're going to do that, and that's going to be the end of it. And so initially when I started investigating all of this and learning about it for myself and asking a lot of questions. There was visible frustration with me on my doctors. Parts there was. A clear like. I'm the doctor here, so I don't know why you're asking me all these questions. Uhm, that's changed dramatically. I also have a notice that. Most physicians that I see have a lot more respect for my choices than they used to. I don't. I don't. It's been a very long time since I have felt pressured to take a medicine or do a procedure or anything that that I wasn't totally comfortable with. So there's just a whole lot more openness, and I think that's a reflection of of. I mean, you can look around our culture and see that that there's kind of like a shift in that in that part of our lives as far as health and true health and nurturing your health. So I think that the openness of the doctors now is just a reflection of that. 
Kelly: 
You've talked about a family. You have a husband. You have two children. Obviously this is a significant part of your life and I'm sure their lives. How have you handled that? And especially at times when you were more ill and how have you balanced that with being a mom and a wife and involving your children and husband in this situation? 
Misty: 
My husband has always been incredibly supportive and. He takes a. Vested interest in my health. And you know if I want to make a change or make a decision that it's going to affect some, you know the rest of our family. We talk about it. We come to a decision together and. He I think my husband is like. He signed on for this, and so whatever he needs to do is what he's going to do. Uhm, 'cause. I mean I we knew that I was sick when we got married. So I think he I think he just does his very, very best that he possibly can to support me. And there's days when I when I work and I come home, and I say I am not cooking dinner tonight. And he says, OK well. Take don't worry about it, you. Know things like that. Uhm so. Uhm, we're also religious people. I guess you could say. I mean, we're we're Christians and. So prayer has played. A big part in that. It's also our our church family in Colorado has been was a great support while we lived there for both. For for my husband and I, as well as our kids, and as far as. My kids go. I'm very open with my children. As much as they can handle, like I'm not I I'm not going to sit down my 5 year old and go. I have it. I have an illness that's gonna you know that I'm going to die from someday because number one. I don't truly believe that I'm going to die from this. And #2, that's terrifying for a child, so within reason, I've always been as open as I possibly can with my. Kids, and there was a time when I had to have a serious talk with my older child about. A transplant and what that meant and. I remember distinctly thinking to myself. He understands. That in order for me to live someone else. But I now I don't think it ever really. Clicked with him until he was older. That that the reverse was also true, that if someone didn't die to give me a liver, then I would die so. I don't know at what point that. Clicked for him because it doesn't come. Up a lot in our day-to-day life. But they're very aware. They know I go for my weekly paracentesis they know on days when I'm tired and exhausted and I just I don't have it in me. I think my my little guy. He's almost 11. He gets frustrated with me because I mean he's 11. He's bouncing off the walls and I just don't have. It In me. But he also understands, you know, and we've sat down and had conversations about. This is what I have, and this is what it means. I never want to create an atmosphere where my kids are in the dark. I don't want them to be scared to ask me questions I don't don't want them to be afraid of what's going to happen to me. I want them to know that. I'm an open book and I'm a source of knowledge for you. Like as you're growing up and as you're navigating your own medical stuff and becoming grown and having illnesses or whatever of your own, you know just a cold or whatever. I am a resource for you. And so I think just that, openness, I think. That's really healthy for kids. And what I've learned over the. Years is kids can handle a lot more than we think they can. 
Kelly: 
Someplace you know there's another misty who is 19 today. Learning that they have something similar to what you have, whether it's the liver situation or something else but. Kind of learning that maybe the life they expected is going to have a curve that they certainly did. Think of when they were 18 or you know the day before they learned about it at that age. What would you say to that person? You know, with the wisdom and experience you've gained over the last 24 years that maybe you wish you had known or learned. Or just someone else had told you when you were 19 and 1st encountering this situation. 
Misty: 
I would say a few things come. First, I would say know your people. Because some people. Don't handle this kind of. Stuff like it. Freaks them out and they aren't interested in having anything to do with you. And, well, I think that's a little bit naive. I also understand, and they're not going to be helpful, so know the people you have that you can count on know. Who's there so? That if if. If someday you just want to. Cry and scream. It's not fair. You have somebody to do that with, right? And then the other thing I would say is. You are your own advocate. If you don't learn about this, sure. They'll do their best for you. They'll they'll do what they can. Your doctors will. And surely anybody that is your people will also help you do the best they can for you. But unless you educate yourself, and unless you know yourself and your body and how it functions and how you feel and how you could feel and what could be a problem and what couldn't. You're not doing yourself any favors. You really have to take the time to educate yourself. And ask questions. Ask questions so if someone tells you you know this medication works because it flushes fluid from. Your abdomen and. You know that, but it does affect your potassium well. How does it affect my potassium and how can I make sure that I'm getting? Enough and what? Do I do about this or what? Do I do about that and know what your side effects could be? You just have to know you have to edge. Yourself so that you can be your own advocate with your doctors and. The other really key piece is. And it's hard. Especially when you're really young, right? Don't be intimidated. It's your body, you have a say you can. You can ask for what you want and you can receive the services should you choose. And I'm not saying anybody should or should not based on their situation. I don't know, but you have to feel comfortable with what you're doing and know that you are in control. A doctor works for you. Not the other way around. 
Kelly: 
Great, not not to get too much into this, but I am just curious. You said that you go once a week to get this fluid removed. Is that a painful process? Or what's the basic logistics of that like? 
Misty: 
Sure, so I will just try. To give you like an overview. First, they they use an ultrasound imaging machine to, you know, make sure it's there and it is and they decide where it's going to. Be the best. Point of entrance to get that fluid out and then they use lidocaine, a local. Anesthetic and they inject that and that hurts. Sometimes it hurts worse than others, uhm? It's it stings, you know. It's just like, uh, and if you've ever had like the like a shot at the dentist, same thing. It's the same stinging, but it's temporary. And then they. Use a catheter. A needle with a hole in it and a catheter inside so it's a metal needle with a plastic. Catheter in it and. They insert that into that into the wall of the abdomen. And then they. The metal needle comes out. The plastic catheter stays and it's has small holes throughout it, and then they attach a tube to a machine that has suction and. It sucks the fluid. Out and towards the end. I gotta roll around and push on things and. I've learned over the years where the spots. Are that it likes? To accumulate and not not try to go out and wiggle around and once it stops flowing and you've done all your you know, poking and prodding. And there's nothing else coming out. They just pull it out, put a Band-Aid on it, and call it a day. 
Kelly: 
About how long does the process take? 
Misty: 
Uhm, it would definitely depends on the amount of fluid. But it can be like 40. 5 minutes to an hour and a half. It's not not very long. 
Kelly: 
And what do you do during that? Read or listen to music? 
Misty: 
Well, I've been going to the same lab to. Have this procedure done for. How long has it been eight years? So I'm friends with everybody there. So we we chit. Chat and then if they don't have time, if they're busy with other. Patients then I. Usually will either. I'm obsessed with cooking and food, so I'll read recipes. I'll watch cooking videos or stuff like that. Just kind of waste time on my phone because I. There's not really anything else I can do. 
Kelly: 
You talked about a cookbook that you found helpful. I wanted to make sure to get the name and author for our podcast listeners. 
Misty: 
Sure, the book is called nourishing traditions. It was written by Sally Fallon Fallon. What I found to be really helpful about the cookbook is it was unlike most cookbooks where it's. It just gives you a bunch of recipes and maybe tells a little back story. It goes into great detail about. How to select your foods and why you want to select the things you want to select so it talks. About healthy proteins. It talks about it. It even addresses if if you are looking for. A healthy choice it it gives you your best choice it gives. You your not. So good choices and it also gives you compromise choices. In some areas it it talks about the different effects of. Proteins on your body of fats on your body. It talks about fermented foods and it just it runs the gamut and it it doesn't. It's not just. Recipe recipe recipe. It's very thorough in depth explanation. About why these recipes are beneficial. 
Kelly: 
I like that where? It kind of gives you some of the. The choices within choices if you will. 
Misty: 
It's very helpful. 
Kelly: 
Missy, you've talked a lot about the process that you've gone through the learnings and things like that. I know we'd love to learn a little bit more about. Kind of some of the learnings you've had and the actual things you've done or are doing, and I'd like to toss it off to my co-host, Chris, to chat with you a little bit more about that. Sure, hey misty. 
Chris: 
Hey so yeah, I just you know you and I have had conversations in the past. I know you've helped me in the past. You've done a lot of the legwork. You know a lot of it, obviously out of necessity and and you're really knowledgeable you you've you've. You've spent the time and and put in the effort to learn about. You know some of the alternatives. Man a lot. A lot of people do. No, that that that, uh, you know some of the alternatives out there are very effective and and a lot of times we go to the doctor and we're given like a single choice like this is the path you need to take. This is my recommendation, but you know, that's that's their choice, right? And at the end of the day, like you stated, it's your body you you get to decide I I was. I was hoping maybe you could expand a little bit on. You know it's just some of the different things I know. You said diet was really important, but I know there there's other things that you have done. You you know to to help keep yourself as healthy as you can, and I was hoping maybe you can kind of talk about those a little bit. 
Misty: 
In all honesty, I've dabbled in a lot and we also have to come at this from a very realistic perspective, which is I have a limited budget, so like some of the things that I would really like to explore further or learn more about or do even more of sometimes they're. Cost prohibitive. So I've tried to focus my energies on the things that I can do, and so when I was doing the initial research for. I I made a binder I I called it my healthy liver book and I collected a bunch of information about. How the liver functions? What causes it to be dysfunctional? And the various systems in your body that can contribute to that going awry, and. So I've tried. Like I said, I use chiropractic regularly and there's a very simple reason. Inside your spinal cord is all of your your nerve tissue. Like your your central nervous system that that tells your body what to do. It sends signals back and forth between your body and your brain. And so it's quite. Logical really when you. Think about your vertebrae, if they're crooked. There's undue stress and pressure on your spinal cord, and then it mixes up the signals so it makes sense to me. Like why would I not keep that functioning? You know as well as possible so that everything is doing everything. It's supposed to do. Another thing that I've learned a lot about. I remember early on coming across some information about it in my research, which is essential. Oils, but at the time. You know, I didn't know I one thing I. Knew for sure is. That you had to have good quality. And I didn't know how to how to find that out and I knew that I could find essential oils at some health food stores, but they were very expensive and I also didn't really know. What oils I would need or? How to use them? Uhm, so that ended. Up coming full circle later on in my life I've. Met someone and. I've learned a great deal about essential oils and. How they can affect your body and the profound benefits that they can have on your body if. They're good quality. Oh, I also. I've also tried Ayurvedic medicine which is more of like a. It's definitely like a more of an eastern approach to where it approaches your whole your body as a whole, and it involves like some. Meditative practices and those types of things, and so I kind of dabble in in a bunch of different stuff and. It by and. Large is dictated by what I feel is helpful. What I can afford. And what is prep? Uhm, and the the one thing and I know it sounds like beating a dead horse, but the one thing that really fits into all those categories really, really, easily, and simply is food. And when I started to learn about how. Your body processes food. That was like. A no brainer for me to to change. What I was doing. So I think that would be the biggest. Contributing factor too. How you know how I've been stable for so long? But as I'm able, I I learn more and I try new things and I try different things. And that includes Western medicine techniques too, you know. So I've had. Some procedures and some surgeries that you know most times. It's because I have to come. But I think. I think I mean food food is is a really big one. And vitamins and probiotics. When I learned about. The nutrient deficiencies and the food we eat. And when I learned about gut health. That's that's a game changer. It really, really. Is and if if you. So you know if anybody takes the time to learn about gut health and the brain gut connection, it's it's vital to how your body functions. So, uhm. Anything, anything you can do to enhance that. So, for example, essential oils help. To maintain, I mean there's there's hundreds of them, right? So there's different things like there's what I use called digestion that helps too. It's just a. Support for your digestive system. To give it what it needs or the boost it needs to to do what it's supposed to do, I take another one from time to time called. That's like a a digestive enzyme that helps breakdown my food so I can get more nutrients from it. Uhm, I also take I use one that is formulated specifically. It's a blend that helps draw toxins out of the liver. I use a lot of citrus oils. Those do the same thing. They're very cleansing. For your body. So I think. I've dabbled in a lot what I settled on for now. Is oils. And food and vitamins and probiotics. And if it were more practical and cost effective, I would be juicing as well. The juicing is huge. 
Chris: 
Yeah, that. Magic Johnson money you know. And yeah, you're you're. 
Misty: 
Yeah, exactly exactly. 
Chris: 
Not wrong. I mean, there's a. There's a lot. Of stuff out there that you know not. Not everybody can afford, you know we can all sleep in a hyperbaric chamber and and have a team of specialist on call at all times to to help us, right? We're kind of on our own. The rest of us. Yeah, I imagine, and you know, because you've battled this and and and and continue to and will continue to come. You know, it's hard to really judge exactly, but I I gotta, I gotta imagine man, you you felt benefits you know across other areas you know, you know, just generally feeling better. I understand that you. You know, you know you have something that you have to deal with on a regular basis, but you know these other things. I'm sure opened your eyes to like wow man, this this thing can help me in a lot of areas. My back pain my neck pain, my headaches, my you know joints and and so on. 
Misty: 
Undoubtedly undoubtedly, so. I mean, I think. Now I will say high quality essential oils. Ummh are not cost effective for everyone. For my family we have decided that it is worth the sacrifice in some other areas for us to be using these essential oils because not only do I benefit from them, but my entire family does, and so I use oils for headaches. I use oils for fevers. I use oils for back aches I use oils. For muscle cramps, I use oils for rashes, for fun. One of my sons gets canker sores now and then. I use them for cuts and scrapes I. Use them for. They're they're my first first defense. I we have toothbrush or toothpaste and mouthwash and deodorant like everything, and we use very, very few. Chemicals in our home. 
Chris: 
Yeah, I know, you know we we talked a little bit. You know a few years back I had reached out and and. You know, I wouldn't say I was a skeptic. You know I'm I'm open minded. But you know, like you kind of made reference to the snake oil before and and there's a lot of people who are skeptical about the essential oils. And I wouldn't say that I was a skeptic necessarily, but I wasn't knowledgeable either right? And I was like I was kind of on the fence like I don't know. Maybe they work, maybe they don't. And you you know there was a situation, I reached out. I actually reached out to a few people and you were kind enough to get back to me. And you know, I had a situation with my son where he had bronchial problems and and was getting this cough all the time. Man and and. It was like, you know, you get three weeks off and then he's got a cough again for six weeks and then he'd get, you know, a month off. And then he's got a cough again for six weeks, and he's constantly dealing with this gnarly like wet nasty cough all the time, right? And we had gone to the doctor with John Doctor. They give medication and it goes away and then it comes back again in a month and then it goes away and after a while it's realized like him. He's got a suit. He's got a problem like this isn't normal, he's not. This isn't just normal 6 year old illness stuff, you know he didn't just catch this at school, he's he's got something further. And so we went to the doctor and then eventually went to a specialist and and, you know, went through all the doctor visits and tests and everything and what they came back with was, you know your son has asthma and you know it may go away. It may not. This is maybe something he's going to deal with for the rest of his life, but that's what's causing these coughs and. So, OK, you know you're the doctor and and you ran tests and you know I I paid my copays and I assume you you did something with that money and I I assume you know what you're talking about, but. You know when you're telling me my son is going to take these steroids, and in this medicine for an undisclosed amount of time, potentially the rest of his life. Well OK, I'm I'm. I'm going to throw my challenge flag here. I'm going to ask some questions 'cause I. Want to find out? Exactly what has been done, how certain are you be sore because I'm? Now, I'm not. I'm not opposed to to medicine. You know, if I break my leg, I'm going to the doctor. You know what I mean? I want I want you to take an X-ray, right? Like I I need you guys for some stuff. For sure you know if I tear in ACL, I'm going to need an MRI to confirm things. You know, right? I mean you have machines that that we just can't get at Walmart so. And and it has its place and and absolutely is necessary on occasion. But it felt to me like they were taking the easy way out, you know? And it's just like, well, this will probably work and it it'll mask the symptoms and. What what, what I want to do is get to the root of the problem. What is causing this and I I know you're giving me something that's going to make him feel better. It's going to make it go away for now, but I I want to make it go away forever. Is that uh, option? And when you and I talked? We had a nice long conversation and and you would describe that Alex had gone through something similar and you know you described what had worked for him. Uhm, you know I'll say so that was it was a long time ago man. I don't remember maybe six years ago. Something like that 556 years ago and you know my son was having this problem for like 2 years and it was two puffs in the morning on this apparatus. And then two puffs before he goes to bed, and then this other thing that he takes with him to school to use. As needed, and this was going to go on forever and. You gave us an alternative that may or may not work, you know, but it was much cleaner and it wasn't going to have the side effects. And you know it's natural as opposed to synthetic. It wasn't developed in a laboratory. You know it's grown in on the earth and OK, I like that better, you know. And so. We gave it a shot. You know we put it in a diffuser. And the breathe oil, you know, we put it on his his chest, you know, kind of like you know used to do with Vicks vapor rub, you know? And you kind of rub it around and and then we put it in a diffuser with a bunch of water and he just sleep with it at night and in six years I can't see. He's never had a cough again, but that. Whatever he had going on is gone for sure and has never come back, so he's gotten sick a couple times like we all do, but. Uh, you know it has not been that gnarly whooping cough thing that he was having before. And so in in a very short order. After giving that a run and and we didn't know you know, I I I got the stuff from the doctor. I I went to the the the drug store and bought the stuff that my doctors recommended. Also as a fall back but it turns out the essential oils worked. And so. You know it wasn't just a coincidence man. This the the problems that my son was having for two years didn't just magically go away at the exact same time when I started using these essential oils. You know, I mean, it's too much of a coincidence for me, so I I. I mean, I was sold and I've always believed in. Just alternatives, I just bought a shakim at so I have back problems. I got degenerated discs and arthritis and and I just lived a life of activity and construction and and a little older now and so I got back and. You know, I don't want to get fusion surgery, I don't. I don't want to be on opioids and and grind through my life, right? I want to live a mostly healthy life and so I'm always look. I believe in chiropractic as well. I don't use it as a regular. Like part like part of my regimen, you know I I use it when I need it and then I don't go back for six months or nine months or a year or whatever, but I do believe in it. I know it works because again, if this is more than just a coincidence, I can't have a problem for five weeks. Go to a chiropractor and then it's just it. Just coincidentally stopped the next day. You know, or a couple days later like the chiropractic works. Right so. Uh, I'm always looking for. Alternatives as well, you know like hey, you know what's healthy like this? So shocking that it hurts a. Little bit and. It burns a little bit, but but you know what? I feel better after I'm off of it and and it doesn't cost me anything and and it doesn't cause any side effects. You know, I mean. 
Misty: 
And if it you know if it's effective, you can't really argue with it. And and you know you touched on something that's. That's really important, which is that? You know you have to have an open mind. And I also firmly believe that your mind has a lot of power. So like I mean, by my recollection, you were a bit of a skeptic, but you tried it 'cause it was for your son. And yeah, I mean you were surprised and and thrilled by the results. And that's. Great, but if you. Go into something with the mindset of this isn't going to work. Then it's probably not going to work, and you're going to be looking for all the reasons why it doesn't work, so he's keeping an open mind. I think so many times people are just. This is what you do. You go to the doctor, they give you medicine. You take it. And everything fine. Well, there are other ways and. It's it's not easy. It is not easy but. 
Chris: 
Yeah, and like you said, you said earlier in the conversation, you know everybody is different and everybody is different and everyone is going to react differently and and you know there it's just I just think it's important to know that there are other options out there and you know this one works. For me, this is what I did, but you know, here's option 234 and five. You know. Maybe #3 works for you. I don't know, you know, but uh. Be open to trying and giving it get. Be honest you know have to give it an honest assessment and you know take away the other variables where you can and and kind of run a science experiment on yourself. Really, I guess that's what you're doing, you know. 
Misty: 
Yes, a little bit, but you'll know when you strike the right balance because things will work, you know, and and I think just. Just knowing that. Even even if you're not a person of faith. Our bodies are made to work. Like they're made to to function, and if something is not functioning, it's because something is wrong, and so it's. You have to. Figure out what's wrong, and I think a lot of times you know. I think some doctors are very well intended and I think sometimes. You do you get the I'm in a. Hurry, this is what you need treatment. But you need to understand the root cause, because if you can, you can put a Band-Aid on all you want. But if you don't get stitches in that cut, it's not helping. 
Chris: 
Yeah, and and I think the way things are set up nowadays, we are issued our doctor. You know, you might only have one doctor available in your area that's taking new patients and and you get who you get. You know I had a history teacher that was pretty rough and I thought I didn't like history at all and and I hated history. Well, it turns out I just didn't like my history teacher, you know. And and I got a different one next year. It turns out why I like history quite a bit, and so you can get a doctor that you may or may not click with and you know it's tough bad. I mean the set up the the way we're set up here in America is. Man, there's not a lot of flexibility when it comes to health care. You know what you said about you're responsible for your health that you need to? You need to own that and and take it on. That's true man. I mean you you are, you know, going to be given a doctor and and you know they need to give you a referral if you're going to go see another guy, you know it's up to them. If you get to go see the specialist or not, you know they decide whether whether we want it or not and so. I just think the more you can do for yourself, the more you can educate yourself and and at at a minimum at least know the right questions to ask, you know, going there. No one going to expect you to be a professional. You know this, this guy did this for eight years to learn this. I just started a couple months ago so I I know I don't know as much as you do Sir or ma'am, but here are my questions and here's what I do know. Can you tell me where I'm wrong? You know and and I think that's on the individual to prepare themselves. And and I agree with you wholeheartedly, that I. You know, sometimes I think the doctors are like they think of themselves as a different species. Sometimes it's like man, you understand we're both humans here. Like you know, I'm I'm paying you to to, you know to do a service for. Me, but they don't really see it that way. 
They see like you. 
Chris: 
Know they're in charge and and you're you're their subject and it's like, no, not really. I mean, we're doing this together, right? Like let's work together on this. 
Kelly: 
I do think. 
Misty: 
There are hundreds. Right? 
Kelly: 
I do think that. Medicine is hopefully evolving into the model where they do see it as more of a partnership. 
Misty: 
That's how I have. Been feeling you know, in the more recent years in my doctoring is there's definitely a lot more openness and. I guess at the risk of offending. Somebody what I'm seeing is the younger doctors tend to be a little bit more open to this, which is very logical because I Know like I said earlier, it's a. There's a, uh, a societal change in the mindset toward health and medicine and and how how health and medicine work together and. You know the other. Options you have. 
Kelly: 
And I think that we are seeing that across a lot of things, not just medicine and some of that is, you know how, what did you learn when you were in school when you learned your profession? You know, and Chris and I talked a lot about sports, obviously, but even there I mean, right, you're seeing. Obviously, the coach and sporting is still tends to be in charge, but. And it's not going to be a free for all, but I do think that even many of the sports have evolved to where players have a bit have more of a say than they used to. Do and it's not just. You know the stand up and yell at everybody kind of mentality for a coach in all cases. 
Chris: 
I hope that bleeds into other areas. You know I the work environment that I'm in is very team oriented. You know, we all have our roles. We all have our jobs and everything, but I, I think there's so much room in life for us to be, uh. Unity and you know, not so much of a straight line, but more of a circle. You know you're not the boss of me and I'm. The boss of. Him and he's the boss of him. We're we're, we're all together, you know, and the buck might stop somewhere and it might be someone who has the final say in in a given matter. But I think there's a room all over in society for us to be. Yeah, just more of a community man and and and understand that you know everyone input matters and and everyone should have a voice, you know. Especially the individual. Who's go to the Doctor Who's we're talking? About my body, you know? I definitely should have a. Say in my body 100% right? 
Kelly: 
Yeah, I think you should, and I think that you know Misty. You clearly outlined you know, the successes of that philosophy and. You know what's worked for you in some models and ways to think about. How others can. Be proactive and have that partnership with the medical people. I know I've had different doctors over my life and those that resonate the most with me are those that I mean anybody who knows me knows. I like to ask questions. And I like the doctors that are willing to let me ask them. 
Misty: 
I agree that's it's it's key. 
Chris: 
Yeah me too. 
Misty: 
If you're not willing to answer my questions, and I don't think this is going to be a partnership, that's. Going to work. And I've had doctors reject me. 
Chris: 
Gather the same thing Misty I had it you know, and and we both have children and and and you know what? While you're while, they're still a minor, you know, I kind of act as you know, their voice and and then sometimes you know, hey, I'm asking questions here. I want to find out, you know more and it's like, well, I told you and it's like. No, you you told me something, you know what I mean you you told me what what pill to go by. I want to know why? What are the side effects? What is it it's going to do? How long is it going to last, you know, and it's like you know, I I've, I've definitely gotten the the annoyed rolled. I'd look up more than once, but I don't really care. I don't you. 
Misty: 
Yep, oddly enough for me it was a pediatrician also. That said, I can't be your doctor. OK, that's fine. I'll find somebody else. 
Kelly: 
Again, this started for you when you were 19. It sounds like you've had quite a journey points when you've been sicker than you are today. Where would you say you are with this situation? At 43 you're off the transplant list. You said correct? Yes, so where are you in this journey today? Would you? 
Misty: 
I would say that is the the question, right? That's the it's a variable because. You know, like when I got that infection in the fluid that came out of nowhere and so really, there's the potential for something like that to happen at any time. I am on medication now to prevent it from happening again. I don't like it, but I recognize that. That was a. Really dumb. That was that set off a whole. Lot of other stuff, and so I'm willing to take a. Medication to to deal with that but. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I guess you could say. I'm good, I feel like I'm pretty stable. Uhm, you know, I have labs. I just had some labs done and my. Meld is at 8. And like I said, I I can do. Most everything I would want to. Do and I outside of. Fatigue and just you know. The the the fluid gets old outside of those couple things like. I feel I think I feel good. I've been told that I probably don't. You know they say that when you is, when you have a transplant, the person who received the liver wakes up from the surgery feeling like 1,000,000 bucks and the donor. If it's a living donor. They they feel like they were hit by a truck, so I. I don't know like. How other people? Feel on the inside. I think I feel fine. I think I'm doing great. 
Kelly: 
Misty, I want to thank you. Obviously you're my niece, but I want to thank you for sharing this journey with our podcast listeners and being so open just to give a bit of a perspective on. Something that most of us don't have much direct experience with. 
Misty: 
I'm open to share any time, and if anybody were to you know, contact you with questions or anything. I'm happy for you to forward my information and I my my viewpoint on it is if what I've been through can help anybody in any way with anything, including something that's not. Liver disease, right? I'm an open book, you know. I believe that as a Christian, I believe that. I have a. Purpose and whatever it is. I don't know God does and if it helps somebody. Even one person deal with some kind of trouble, illness or disease or anything in their lives and it's it's I'm. It's fine that. I have it, it's it's worth it.