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Announcer:
Welcome to The Podcast to be Named Later, where we explore the world a conversation at a time.  Sit back and enjoy.  Here are your hosts, Chris and Kelly.
Kelly:
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the podcast to be named later. This is Kelly and my co-host Chris is taking the day off, probably learning more about fleur-de-lisÊ  or some other logo that he didn't know how to describe too well.
Kelly:
We have a special guest and in fact the 1st guest on our podcast.
Kelly:
Ioana Tanase is a coworker of mine at Microsoft, and like any introductions when she joined our team, she sent a lot of details about who she is and one thing that Ioana does that caught my attention that I really honestly didn't know existed is as a hobby or business or.
InterestÉIoana is a shoe maker.
Kelly:
Ioana welcome to the podcast.
Ioana:
Hey Kelly, thank you for having me.
Kelly:
Do you want to tell everybody a little bit as much as you want about your background and how you got to where you are and stuff?
Ioana:
Yeah, sure.
Ioana:
Well, I'm obviously now in the accessibility team at Microsoft, but I'm not going to focus on that.
Ioana:
Instead, I'm going to kind of focus on my lifelong passion, if you will.
Ioana:
Which is shoe making or shoes.
Ioana:
And and I actually have to go way, way back in order to explain this one.
Ioana:
Growing up, I always had this love for shoes.
Ioana:
I love the colors or I love the shape of a shoe or I felt the I really loved the way they felt and and you know, growing up and being kind of a teenager.
Ioana:
If I was saving money, I know that I was always saving money for a pair of shoes.
Ioana:
That was my.
Ioana:
Investment strategies like work hard.
Ioana:
Earn kind of a a teenager wage if you will by doing side hustles and small businesses and then spend that money in shoes.
Ioana:
And this is a true story, but my first word was not mom or dad, but it was actually the word booting or the version of the word booting Romanian.
Ioana:
So at least my parents weren't mad about that.
Ioana:
But they knew what they had in store with me and then growing up.
Ioana:
You know, I took that passion from.
Ioana:
Just liking to our shoes or the design of shoes and was very curious of how do you make them?
Ioana:
So I enrolled into a design course with one of the fashion schools in London and it was something that I was doing kind of during the weekends and it was very much focused on how do you design A shoe?
Ioana:
What are the elements designing a shoe?
Ioana:
What types of shoes out there and then.
Ioana:
As you know, pandemic happened.
Ioana:
I suddenly found myself in the household with a lot of time to to spend.
Ioana:
So that's when I started really making shoes and started with a very classical pair and progressed to others.
Kelly:
So let me let me ask a couple of questions you want to.
Kelly:
Again, I didn't really know this world existed.
Kelly:
Is there a big community of shoe makers throughout the world?
Ioana:
They still are, yes, so.
Ioana:
As you think of shoes, most of the shoes
Ioana:
We buy are.
Ioana:
Factory made right.
Ioana:
You have a brand or a factory who makes.
Ioana:
But there is still very much social community of shoe makers and and these are the folks who basically make shoes from scratch towards the end with very little machinery.
Ioana:
Very much handmade.
Ioana:
They're they're fewer and fewer around the world and and that because you know, it is an expensive profession and the shoes that they make usually are quite expensive, but they're always custom made.
Ioana:
So yeah, you will find shoe makers across the world.
Kelly:
When you think about shoes, and so you've made these kind of custom really works of art almost, I guess would be a fair thing.
Kelly:
Is it hard when you then take them out and wear them out on the street?
Ioana:
I'm I'm blushing over the words works of art I I don't think going quite very hard, but more of an apprentice in the process, but there are definitely people who make them work so.
Ioana:
Part absolutely, so there's all of these are meant to be worn.
Ioana:
And why shoe making or bespoke Shoemaker exists is because it's really meant to be made for the person.
Ioana:
So if something cost made to your feet and your needs, and that's because our feet are very different.
Ioana:
Our needs are very different when it comes to.
Ioana:
A man wearing shoes, and that's what this really is about, is creating something both beautiful but comfortable.
Kelly:
Could you take our listeners through kind of the process of right?
Kelly:
Most of us have no idea how shoes are made in the 1st place, even in the factory, but.
Kelly:
Give us the crash course if you will, on kind of what goes on to make a shoe from the time you want to, you have an idea like what do you have to acquire and how do you do?
Ioana:
Yeah, totally.
Ioana:
So it starts with what we call a shoe last in a shoe.
Ioana:
Last is basically a mold, but it's not a mold of your feet.
Ioana:
If you were to put a shoe last inside of your shoes, it would perfectly cover every inch of that shoe, so it's a it's a mold of the shape.
Ioana:
Of the shoe that to be, and there's different types of shoe lasts depending on the shape of the shoe you want to create.
Ioana:
You know, does it have a high heel?
Ioana:
Does it have a you know, pointed toe or rounded?
Ioana:
So and and in the UK, I believe there's only one company left that still makes them.
Ioana:
And they do both bespoke class.
Ioana:
If you have a really specific interest in a shape of issue as well as their standard ones.
Ioana:
If you will, and even factories have to order those, because even if you're, you know a small maker like myself or a factory, that is the basic.
Ioana:
Of making a shoe.
Ioana:
Now how I would do it?
Ioana:
And this is maybe the more not the classical way of doing it, but that's my way of doing.
Ioana:
What I would do is you have the last and you have an idea of the of the shoe you want to make and I will apply masking tape.
Ioana:
All over it.
Ioana:
And start drawing.
Ioana:
The actual form of the shoes, so you know how high it is it in the front, how high it is at the back.
Ioana:
Does it have a tongue or not?
Ioana:
Where does the CBR go?
Ioana:
All of those things you draw by pencil on the masking tape that has been applied to the last.
Ioana:
And then you cut it all around the masking tape and you unglue it if you will from the last and put it to actually paper.
Ioana:
And that's what you have your pattern.
Ioana:
And that's really the 1st.
Ioana:
Step let me let.
Kelly:
Me pause there for a second so when you talk about this last is that like custom for each shoe you want to make them based on the size.
Ioana:
Yeah, yeah, you obviously can visualize last, so because it's usually either plastic or wood.
Ioana:
So once you have a last you can reutilize it multiple times, but it is custom made or a custom shaper shoe.
Kelly:
And you talked about this.
Kelly:
I'm not asking for all your details.
Kelly:
But can you give us a estimate of like just as a what something like that costs?
Ioana:
Oh yeah, I think and I'm I'm giving you a bowl part 'cause I have an order one in a in a while, but I think per size it was something around £130 which which I guess in dollar is around $150. So that's per model per size. If you're making multiple sizes, multiply that.
Kelly:
OK, so maybe seems like a strange question, but given that there is a right shoe and a left shoe, do you need 2 lasts?
Ioana:
So they come in a pair, and that's a fair question.
Ioana:
When you order the price I shared, it's for a pair.
Ioana:
So you basically get the left and the right for a pair of shoes.
Kelly:
OK, so you've got this last, which I I guess I'm envisioning in my mind, is a little bit like kind of.
Kelly:
Maybe this is too simplistic, but it's like a model of a foot almost that you're going to build the shoe around if you will.
Kelly:
Is that fair?
Ioana:
Yeah, it's and I see, yeah, with a bit of a hesitation because it's not really the model of the food, but rather if you were to take a pair of shoes that you wear right now and just imagine putting foam in it.
Ioana:
Let's let's suppose that that form kept shape as you took it out.
Ioana:
That would be your last.
Ioana:
Does that make sense?
Kelly:
Yep, thanks for the clarification.
Kelly:
So OK, I'll let you continue on your journey.
Kelly:
So you've taken this last and you've drawn on that and taken that, and now you're ready to get a pattern.
Kelly:
You've got your pattern, then what's next?
Ioana:
Basically it's cutting from the pattern because the pattern is going to be on kind of like a thick paper or something you want to apply that thick paper on top of the material that you're going to use in.
Ioana:
Order to make the shoe.
Ioana:
And I say material because it really depends.
Ioana:
Some people use leather, you might use fabric.
Ioana:
You might use all sorts of materials that are appropriate for shoes.
Ioana:
And you put the pattern on top of whatever material you're using and basically cut around that pattern and there is a.
Ioana:
There's a specific knife that shoe makers use, which is called a click.
Ioana:
And it's basically it's a very sharp blade, so that blade goes around that pattern and has really nice edges, and making sure that it doesn't fringe or it doesn't have excess that looks bad.
Ioana:
That's your next stage.
Ioana:
Basically just cutting all the different bits and bobs.
Kelly:
And do you have a preference for?
Kelly:
What material you work with?
Ioana:
I personally don't have a preference.
Ioana:
I I would say it's easier to work with leather than it is to work with fabric because of the integrity of the grain.
Ioana:
So you have a a material that is easier to to cut around and actually last longer.
Ioana:
But I don't really have a preference.
Kelly:
So OK, now you've spent this time cutting out from the letter, let's say, and now you kind of have the I guess the shape of the shoe in letter.
Ioana:
Correct or the different pieces if you will.
Ioana:
That will come together.
Ioana:
Because what you caught is both the lining as opposed as well as what we call the upper, which is basically the the side of the shoe that you can perceive from the outside.
Ioana:
And what you have once you have cut all these pieces together, you actually have to sew them up so you have to kind of put them together like a puzzle.
Ioana:
So as you imagine you're, let's say, a normal shoe that has a tongue in the different left side and the right side.
Ioana:
If you run your hand around it, there's different edges where they've been just sewn together so you have to make sure that you put those pieces.
Ioana:
Together you apply.
Ioana:
A little bit.
Ioana:
Of glue on the inside to help them stay in shape and then you use a.
Ioana:
Usually a very professional sewing machine.
Ioana:
If you're using letter that is in order to stitch them together.
Ioana:
And that's how you have what we call the upper, which is basically just the top bit of the shoe without any of the swelling.
Ioana:
And that's the first first real stage.
Kelly:
So from.
Kelly:
The time if you were to do this like nonstop from the time that you you know acquire the last until you've sewn everything together, like about how many hours of work is that.
Ioana:
Well, it depends on the pair of shoes, but from and also depends on the maker because I'm I'm still a beginner.
Ioana:
But it probably takes me around.
Ioana:
Uhm, four or five days of work.
Ioana:
In order to make a pair of shoes.
Kelly:
How many hours a day would you say?
Kelly:
That would be.
Ioana:
It's assuming based on 8 hours a day.
Kelly:
Roet 40 hours.
Ioana:
Yeah, and that's a that's a good version where it's a simple pair to make because the more complexities you get.
Ioana:
Obviously that that delays the process.
Kelly:
Is it the sewing, the cutting or what that adds up everything really?
Ioana:
We do.
Ioana:
Because let me explain the rest of the the process so you have your upper, which is the basically the lever letter part with the material part of your shoe.
Ioana:
Once that's done.
Ioana:
You have to go through a process which is called lasting, which is basically just using a lot of power and force.
Ioana:
To mould that upper to your last so you use the last as the shape.
Ioana:
And you manipulate the letter or the material or whatever the upper is made from in order to kind of mold it around your last and classically.
Ioana:
You leave the letter if you're using letter overnight with a bit of water.
Ioana:
I put it in the washing machine, so I just put the letter in the washing machine in order to really make it wet, and then I start manipulating it.
Ioana:
Around that last.
Ioana:
You then have to let it for a day to dry.
Ioana:
What will happen is, instead of kind of having this.
Ioana:
Random shape, it really takes the shape of the lab, so this is what gives your shoe its particular shape, and once it has done that you need to add what we call a heel counter and to pass these are extra elements either from leather or other materials that reinforce the.
Ioana:
Toy area and the heel area and why this is really important.
Ioana:
If you don't have a heel counter, it's not going to support your ankle, and if you don't have a topof, the the shoe will deform in the toe area, so it's not going to keep a solid shape.
Ioana:
And and after that is done you need to re last everything.
Ioana:
So you go for the same process of taking the everything that is on top of the the shoe and making sure it has the right shape and you would apply the sole and that can have multiple elements to it as well.
Ioana:
Obviously if it's a flat shoe.
Ioana:
Or if it's a heel too.
Ioana:
So there's a lot to do.
Kelly:
There as well, and how do you build those?
Ioana:
The so so it depends on the type of the shoe.
Ioana:
In the classical world you use very thick leather, so you have a panel almost like half a centimeter to a centimeter thick of leather.
Ioana:
From that you manipulate and kind of hammer to the to the base of your last, which has the same shape of the shoe.
Ioana:
And then you would add to that.
Ioana:
For example an oversold, which can be plastic or rubber in order to make sure that you know the letter doesn't get water and you don't sleep.
Ioana:
And things like that.
Ioana:
So depending on the type of shoe do this will be.
Ioana:
Different, and where do you?
Kelly:
Where do you get all of that from the?
Kelly:
Is there like do you have to hand make all that?
Kelly:
For other companies, you said like in the UK, there was one maker of lasts.
Kelly:
Is this hard to acquire?
Ioana:
You can purchase the the Soles unit so there are companies who professionally cut them for you.
Ioana:
I only know one or two.
Ioana:
In the UK that.
Ioana:
Do that, however, the way I do it is I have a block of material.
Ioana:
If you wear old leather and I actually caught them myself.
Ioana:
So I would use what we call a soul pattern, which is basically exactly the size and shape of the soul.
Ioana:
And cut that.
Ioana:
And then I use a Sander that I run against all the edges to make sure that it's nice and clean and smooth as opposed to having beaten elements of it that stick out.
Kelly:
It sounds like quite an involved process.
Kelly:
Do you know?
Kelly:
About how many pairs of shoes you've made.
Ioana:
Ah, I haven't counted recently, but I think the last time I was just putting things away in the closet around 20.
Kelly:
Wow, and do you remember the first pair of shoes you made?
Kelly:
Do you still?
Kelly:
Have him.
Ioana:
I actually gave them away because I made them.
Ioana:
A slice too small.
Ioana:
So I I meant to make them for myself, but I made him too small so I had to give them away for my to my best friend and they were a pair of classical shoes darbies but made for a woman.
Kelly:
So the first pair that you made for yourself and started to wear what?
Kelly:
What did that feel like?
Kelly:
The first time?
Kelly:
You kind of went out of the.
Kelly:
House with them on.
Ioana:
A bit unreal.
Ioana:
I couldn't quite believe that I made them and then I realized all the things that I did wrong.
Ioana:
In the sense of.
Ioana:
Oh, it's a size too.
Ioana:
Small or oh, I really.
Ioana:
The heel because it has a very small.
Ioana:
Both Hill one of the heels that I did was shorter than the other so I had to solve that.
Ioana:
And then I realized that I should have put padding in the tongue and things like that.
Ioana:
So when you make shoes and start wearing your own shoes, you quickly discover a lot of ways to improve.
Ioana:
As opposed to.
Ioana:
When I was just, you know, wearing them without actually knowing how they're made, you might feel that they're uncomfortable, but you can't pinpoint what about them makes them uncomfortable.
Ioana:
So it's just a constant journey of perfection in terms of making something that is really comfortable and feeds.
Kelly:
You know, for most of us you want to we buy a pair of shoes from the store and you try your best to get something that fits, but at least for me, it's always like, yeah, that's kind of close and hopefully over time you kind of break it into your foot and then it.
Kelly:
Starts to feel OK and right about that time it's time to get a new pair of shoes because other parts of the shoe of.
Kelly:
Now, do you find that by making your own shoes you get that kind of old shoe comfort a lot quicker if you will.
Ioana:
Yes, because you fine tune them constantly and the other thing is when you have a pair of shoes that you made or you buy a pair of shoes that is bespoke.
Ioana:
They're really meant to last, so even if, for example, if the sole gets a little bit more propped and it needs replacing, there's people who can replace that.
Ioana:
You can take it to a cobbler and.
Ioana:
They can fix it so.
Ioana:
I don't know it's because I made them myself or because you put so much sweat, energy and passion in making them.
Ioana:
You want to see them last.
Ioana:
They're not meant to be something that you know.
Ioana:
After six months, they've they've been worn out and they're done.
Ioana:
They they're meant to us to last two years and years and years.
Kelly:
In this world of shoe makers.
Kelly:
If you are there like people that have known styles like is there like a community where you could look at a pair of shoes and say Oh yeah, I know that.
Kelly:
Person X made those.
Ioana:
Oh yeah, people tend to specialized because you know, there's so many types of shoes out there.
Ioana:
There's wind shoes that are healed.
Ioana:
There's classical men shoes, so if you think of your oxfords and derbies and things like that, there's trainers and we spoke.
Ioana:
Trainers oh sorry sneakers.
Ioana:
I'm I'm using the UK lingo.
Ioana:
There's peace, spoke.
Ioana:
Uh, uh.
Ioana:
Materials that certain people use.
Ioana:
So based on the style, the materials and kind of the overall craft, there are certainly people who have a very unique style and you can pinpoint that they made that pair of shoes.
Ioana:
I don't know how much of a community there is.
Ioana:
People tend to be, you know.
Ioana:
There's there's not a lot of collaboration in fashion in general, and that applies to the shoe world as well.
Ioana:
So yeah, there there is.
Ioana:
I wouldn't call it the community.
Kelly:
So of the 20 pairs of shoes you've made, do you have a favorite or one that's a most memorable experience?
Ioana:
I'm I'm laughing because there's definitely a pair that is today my favorite.
Ioana:
It's a pair of so it's a heel shoe.
Ioana:
It has a high heel of seven to 10 centimeters.
Ioana:
Apologies, I don't know what that is in inches and, and it's meant to be a summer show.
Ioana:
Because there's there's an empty ankle, so to say, and the front bit, which is quite high.
Ioana:
It goes above.
Ioana:
Of the leg, I would say 10 centimeters. It's all covered in buttons, so I had to manually. So in the buttons and I don't know how many buttons it has. I think it has over 100 buttons on each of the.
Ioana:
Left and right side and that was a really fun pair to make and they make a lot of.
Ioana:
Noise when I wear them.
Ioana:
As well, and do you still?
Ioana:
Wear them, yeah.
Kelly:
Great, well wanted.
Kelly:
This has really been a fascinating short glimpse into a world.
Kelly:
Like I said, I knew nothing about and so I appreciate you indulging my interest and our podcast listeners.
Kelly:
I'd love to have you on again sometime to maybe talk about, you know.
Kelly:
Chew a little bit more in the differences between this and like factory made shoes and a bunch more.
Kelly:
I think you're very knowledgeable in the area, but I want to thank you immensely for your time.
Ioana:
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Ioana:
Kelly and I will gladly be back.
Kelly:
Thank you everyone and the pro listening to this edition of the podcast to be named later and enjoy the day.